#415 – Serhii Plokhy: History of Ukraine, Russia, Soviet Union, KGB, Nazis & War

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Mar 4, 2024

In this engaging discussion, Serhii Plokhy, a renowned Ukrainian historian and director at Harvard's Ukrainian Research Institute, dives into the intricate histories of Ukraine and Russia. He unpacks the roots of Ukrainian nationalism, examining figures like Stepan Bandera and the complexities of his legacy. Plokhy also explores the KGB's chilling influence on Russian political culture, and ties historical events like Holodomor and Chernobyl to contemporary identity struggles. With insights on the ongoing conflict, he sheds light on the fractured path to peace.

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INSIGHT

Soviet Collapse: Three Processes

The Soviet Union's collapse involved distinct processes: ideological decline, Cold War loss, and the Union's disintegration.
These processes, while interconnected, have different implications, especially geographically.

INSIGHT

Soviet Collapse and Russian Empire

The Soviet collapse reflects the broader decline of the Russian Empire, starting in 1917 and resuming in the late 20th century.
Both local nationalisms and Russian nationalism contributed to the empire's disintegration.

INSIGHT

U.S. and Soviet Collapse

Despite Cold War tensions, the U.S. aimed to prevent the Soviet collapse due to concerns about instability and nuclear weapons.
President Bush's "Chicken Kiev" speech highlights this; he cautioned Ukrainians against independence.

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Lost Kingdom : The Quest for Empire and the Making of the Russian Nation

Serhii Plokhy

In *Lost Kingdom*, Serhii Plokhy explores the centuries-long struggle of Russian elites to reclaim a mythical 'lost kingdom', tracing the nation's imperial ambitions from Ivan the Terrible to Vladimir Putin. The book delves into the intricate relationship between Russian imperialism and Ukrainian nationalism, providing a comprehensive understanding of Russia's ongoing geopolitical actions.

The Frontline: Essays on Ukraine's Past and Present

Serhii Plokhy

This book presents a selection of essays that form a companion volume to Serhii Plokhy's *The Gates of Europe* and *Chernobyl*. It delves into key events in Ukrainian history, such as the Holodomor, World War II, and the Chernobyl disaster, providing a multidimensional view of Ukraine's ongoing conflicts. The essays juxtapose historical events with contemporary politics of memory, offering insights into Ukraine's role in global affairs.

The Russo-Ukrainian War: The Return of History

Serhii Plokhy

In 'The Russo-Ukrainian War: The Return of History', Serhii Plokhy provides a comprehensive historical context for the ongoing conflict between Russia and Ukraine. He characterizes the war as an imperial endeavor by Russian elites to undermine Ukrainian sovereignty, tracing historical roots and recent developments. The book covers significant events like the Orange Revolution and the annexation of Crimea, highlighting their impact on the conflict's escalation.

The man with the poison gun

Serhii Plokhy

This book tells the story of Bogdan Stashinsky, a Ukrainian who became a KGB assassin during the Cold War. Stashinsky's career involved high-profile murders, including the use of a poison gun. The narrative explores his rise and eventual defection to West Germany, providing insights into the espionage world of post-war Europe. Plokhy's work offers a detailed look at the intelligence milieu of the time, highlighting the paranoia and intrigue that characterized the era.

Nuclear Folly

Serhii Plokhy

Serhii Plokhy's 'Nuclear Folly' provides a detailed account of the Cuban Missile Crisis, tracing the complex decision-making processes of John F. Kennedy, Nikita Khrushchev, and Fidel Castro. The book draws on Soviet archival sources and White House tapes to illustrate the tense days of the crisis and the lessons they hold for the present day.

The last empire

Serhii Plokhy

In 'The Last Empire', Serhii Plokhy provides a detailed analysis of the Soviet Union's dissolution, challenging the narrative of its collapse as an American victory in the Cold War. Instead, he highlights the internal dynamics, particularly in Ukraine and Russia, that led to the Soviet Union's demise. The book draws on declassified documents and interviews to offer a nuanced understanding of this pivotal moment in history.

Atoms and Ashes - a Global History of Nuclear Disasters

Serhii Plokhy

In 'Atoms and Ashes', Serhii Plokhy provides a detailed account of six significant nuclear accidents: Bikini Atoll, Kyshtym, Windscale, Three Mile Island, Chernobyl, and Fukushima. The book examines the complex interplay of technological, human, and political factors that led to these disasters, raising questions about the safety and future of nuclear energy. Plokhy's narrative highlights the lessons learned from these incidents and their implications for the nuclear industry's future.

The Cossack Myth

History and Nationhood in the Age of Empires

Serhii Plokhy

Chernobyl

The History of a Nuclear Catastrophe

Serhii Plokhy

Serhii Plokhy's book provides a comprehensive analysis of the Chernobyl disaster, delving into the technical failures and political cover-ups that exacerbated the tragedy. It also examines the broader impact on the Soviet Union and Ukraine's path to independence. Plokhy's narrative blends technical explanations with human stories, highlighting the heroic efforts of those who dealt with the disaster's consequences.

The Origins of the Slavic Nations

Serhii Plokhy

This book explores the development of identities among the Eastern Slavs from the creation of Kyiv Rus' in the ninth century to the formation of early modern nations in the eighteenth century. It examines how different socio-political experiences shaped the understanding of what it meant to be part of the Rus'ian people, leading to distinct identities in regions under Mongol, Polish, and Lithuanian rule. The book challenges traditional narratives by focusing on the role of elites in constructing and implementing ethnonational projects.

The Gulag Archipelago

An Experiment in Literary Investigation

Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn

The Gulag Archipelago is a three-volume series written by Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn, exploring the Soviet labour camp system through a mix of historical narrative, personal accounts, and literary investigation. The book traces the history of the Gulag from Vladimir Lenin's decrees to the era of Nikita Khrushchev, detailing the arrest, conviction, transport, and imprisonment of prisoners. It includes Solzhenitsyn's own experiences as a Gulag prisoner and accounts from other inmates, highlighting the brutal conditions, forced labor, and the psychological and physical suffering of the prisoners. The work is a testament to the human spirit's struggle against evil and serves as a comprehensive critique of the Soviet regime's use of terror against its population[2][5][3].

Serhii Plokhy is a Ukrainian historian at Harvard University, director of the Ukrainian Research Institute, and an author of many books on history of Eastern Europe, including his latest book The Russo-Ukrainian War: The Return of History. Please support this podcast by checking out our sponsors:
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Transcript: https://lexfridman.com/serhii-plokhy-transcript

EPISODE LINKS:
Serhii’s X: https://x.com/splokhy
Serhii’s Website: https://history.fas.harvard.edu/people/serhii-plokhii
Harvard Ukrainian Research Institute: https://huri.harvard.edu/
Serhii’s Books: https://amzn.to/3OS2EqK
2006 – The Origins of the Slavic Nations
2010 – Yalta: The Price of Peace
2012 – The Cossack Myth: History and Nationhood in the Age of Empires
2014 – The Last Empire: The Final Days of the Soviet Union
2015 – The Gates of Europe: A History of Ukraine
2016 – The Man with the Poison Gun: A Cold War Spy Story
2017 – Lost Kingdom: The Quest for Empire and the Making of the Russian Nation
2018 – Chernobyl: History of a Tragedy
2021 – Nuclear Folly: A History of the Cuban Missile Crisis
2021 – The Frontline: Essays on Ukraine’s Past and Present
2022 – Atoms and Ashes: A Global History of Nuclear Disaster
2023 – The Russo-Ukrainian War: The Return of History

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OUTLINE:
Here’s the timestamps for the episode. On some podcast players you should be able to click the timestamp to jump to that time.
(00:00) – Introduction
(09:10) – Collapse of the Soviet Union
(25:19) – Origins of Russia and Ukraine
(38:22) – Ukrainian nationalism
(46:04) – Stepan Bandera
(1:15:05) – KGB
(1:30:03) – War in Ukraine
(2:06:19) – NATO and Russia
(2:17:22) – Peace talks
(2:31:09) – Ukrainian Army head Valerii Zaluzhnyi
(2:37:46) – Power and War
(2:48:37) – Holodomor
(2:55:09) – Chernobyl
(3:05:43) – Nuclear power
(3:15:20) – Future of the world