War correspondent Anthony Loyd explores the Ukrainian war, including the desperate measures men take to avoid conscription and the ongoing debate on mobilizing new soldiers. The podcast also discusses the state of the war, potential peace talks, and the divisions within society and government regarding support for the war and the draft.
Men in Ukraine are resorting to dangerous river crossings to escape conscription, driven by the desire to reunite with their families or find work in neighboring countries.
The Ukrainian forces involved in the conflict can be categorized into volunteer brigades, mobilized units, and individuals trying to evade conscription, with mobilized soldiers facing physical and mental strains as they fulfill their military duties.
Deep dives
Desperate Measures to Escape Conscription in Ukraine
In Ukraine, men aged between 18 to 60 have been banned from leaving the country due to the war. As a result, many people are resorting to desperate measures to escape conscription. One common method is attempting to cross the treacherous River Tisa, risking their lives to reach neighboring countries. Some are driven by the desire to see their families who had to leave Ukraine, while others are trying to find work. The river crossings are often perilous, with individuals using inadequate flotation devices. These escape attempts highlight the desperation many men face to avoid serving on the front lines.
The Composition of Ukrainian Forces and the Stalemate of the War
The Ukrainian forces involved in the conflict can be divided into three groups: volunteer brigades, mobilized units, and those attempting to avoid conscription. Volunteer brigades, such as the Azov Brigade, are comprised of dedicated and well-trained individuals who have willingly joined the fight. Mobilized units consist of individuals who have been told to join the army and may not have volunteered. These units often include people who had regular jobs before being mobilized. The average age of Ukrainian soldiers at the front lines is now 43, indicating the impact of mobilization. Despite efforts to match individuals' civilian roles with army positions, the physical and mental strains on these mobilized soldiers are evident. Additionally, there are individuals who, instead of joining the army, are risking their lives to escape conscription by attempting to leave the country.
Debate and Controversies Surrounding Conscription in Ukraine
The Ukrainian government has been debating a bill to expand mobilization and potentially conscripting half a million new soldiers. However, there are divisions and controversies regarding this bill. Some argue that mobilization is necessary to ensure a sufficient number of soldiers to rotate those already on the front lines. However, critics point out that mobilization impacts individuals who may have civilian careers and desires to not be part of the war. The bill seeks to lower the age cap for conscription to 25, creating further concerns among those affected. Moreover, recent conflicts and tensions between President Zelensky and his top general have further complicated the conscription issue, causing divisions within Ukraine's leadership. The overall question remains if Ukraine can sustain its war effort and achieve its goals given the challenges it faces with regards to personnel, divisions within the leadership, and the realities of the ongoing conflict.
In an interview over the weekend, President Zelensky announced a major shake up in the Ukrainian army. It comes after a week-long battle between Zelensky and his top general. So after all of this internal disarray – how is the war seen right now by Ukrainians? Anthony Loyd returns from another trip to the country, where he embedded with brigades and met the men desperate to avoid conscription.
This episode contains frank descriptions of warfare.
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Guest: Anthony Loyd, Special Correspondent, The Times.