Conversational AI: Hype, Limits & Human-Centred Design (With Peter Swimm)-Ep #197

Peter Swimm breaks down why so many AI bots still miss the mark—and what it really takes to build automation that works for people, not just systems.

About the Episode:

In this episode, Marc is joined by Peter Swimm, a leading expert in conversational AI and the founder of Toilville, to break down where automation and chatbots are actually delivering value—and where they’re falling short. Peter shares his early experiences with chatbot frameworks, including his time leading product at Botkit and Microsoft, and explains how AI went from scripted FAQ bots to today’s multi-modal agents.

But don’t let the hype fool you. Peter emphasizes the critical limitations of current AI tools in customer service, particularly when it comes to privacy, accountability, and actual usefulness. Together, Marc and Peter explore what makes a chatbot actually good, how AI agents should be designed to support—not replace—humans, and why context, personalization, and flexibility matter more than ever.

The conversation also dives into real-world examples from banking, healthcare, and enterprise AI rollouts, as well as the nuanced ethical questions emerging around AI’s growing role in business and society. If you’ve ever wondered why so many chatbots frustrate you—or how we can do better—this one’s for you.

About the Guest:

Peter Swimm is the founder and CEO of Toilville, a consultancy helping businesses implement conversational AI without losing institutional knowledge or human expertise. A longtime product leader and community builder, Peter previously led development on Microsoft’s Copilot Studio and co-founded Botkit, the open-source chatbot framework acquired by Microsoft. With over 25 years in tech, he’s worked with companies like Walmart, Chipotle, and LivePerson, helping shape some of the most widely-used conversational AI tools in the industry. A passionate advocate for human-centred design, Peter has also organized global events around electronic music and emerging technology, staying grounded in making complex systems accessible and ethical.

Website: https://www.itstoilville.com/

Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/peterswimm/

Timestamps:

00:01:00 - Episode Commences
00:03:13 - Peter's Journey Into AI and Conversational Technology  
00:07:33 - Evolution of Automation and AI  
00:12:51 - Improving Chatbot Experience and Flexibility  
00:18:13 - Automation in Banking and Healthcare  
00:22:53 - AI Agents and Chatbot Limitations 
00:28:01 - AI Integration Challenges and Privacy Concerns  
00:32:15 - AI's Role in Customer Service
00:36:08 - AI Transparency and Accountability Concerns
00:44:16 - Episode Concludes

Additional Notes:

For more check out the website: https://futuretechandforesight.com/

Or connect with me on –

Twitter: https://twitter.com/FutureTech_Pod

Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/company/futuretechandforesight/