In this episode, host Beth Cougler Blom talks with Julie Dirksen about designing learning experiences that support real behaviour change. Julie shares insights from her latest book, Talk to the Elephant, and offers practical ways to go beyond knowledge transfer to create meaningful impact.

Beth and Julie also talk about:

The difference between knowledge gaps and behaviour gaps
The rider and elephant metaphor and why it matters for learning design
How to identify what really needs fixing—people or systems
The importance of pre- and post-learning supports
Why designing for managers is just as important as designing for learners

Engage with Julie Dirksen

Website: Usable Learning
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/juliedirksen/
Facebook: Design for How People Learn group

Links From the Episode

Allen Interactions
Leaving ADDIE for SAM by Michael Allen
Telling Ain't Training by Harold D. Stolovitch and Erika J. Keep
The Happiness Hypothesis by Jonathan Haidt
Thinking Fast and Slow by Daniel Kahneman
Will Training Help? flowchart by Cathy Moore
Prochaska and Di Clemente's transtheoretical model

Connect with the Facilitating on Purpose podcast:

Follow Facilitating on Purpose on Instagram, LinkedIn, or YouTube
Show notes and transcripts available at facilitatingonpurpose.ca

Connect with Host Beth Cougler Blom:

Give feedback or suggest upcoming show topics or guests at hello@bcblearning.com
Visit bcblearning.com to explore Beth's company's services in facilitation and learning design
Purchase a copy of Beth's book, Design to Engage
Follow Beth on Instagram or LinkedIn

Podcast production services by Mary Chan of Organized Sound Productions

Designing Learning for Behaviour Change with Julie Dirksen - EP 62