Srsly Risky Biz: Why America needs its own Salt Typhoon
Feb 20, 2025
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The hosts dive into the idea of retaliating against Chinese telcos due to cyber attacks on the U.S., discussing the merits of such a campaign. They highlight Samoa's bold move in publicly calling out Chinese hackers, showcasing how even smaller nations are stepping up against cyber threats. The conversation also covers the complex dynamics of surveillance and national security between the U.S. and China, as well as the delicate balance of secrecy and transparency in intelligence operations. It's a captivating look at global cyber warfare and its ramifications.
The podcast discusses the potential benefits of a U.S. retaliatory cyber campaign against Chinese telcos to counter Salt Typhoon attacks.
Samoa’s proactive stance in calling out Chinese cyber threats illustrates a significant shift in global attitudes towards asserting cybersecurity interests.
Deep dives
U.S. Cybersecurity and Retaliation Strategies
The discussion highlights a controversial opinion regarding U.S. cybersecurity strategy, particularly in response to the Salt Typhoon campaign targeting American telecommunications. A key point is that Senator Mark Warner suggests the U.S. should threaten China with retaliatory cyber operations of similar scale to impose costs on their hacking endeavors. However, the assessment indicates that U.S. retaliation would likely have a more significant impact on China due to the structure of its networks, which are less secure and built for surveillance. This asymmetry in network design presents a compelling case for the U.S. to assert a more aggressive posture in cyberspace, leveraging potential vulnerabilities in Chinese systems.
Changing Dynamics in Cyber Attribution
An interesting shift is noted in the geopolitical landscape, particularly regarding attribution of cyber incidents to nation-states, exemplified by Samoa's stance on Chinese hacking activities. This small nation openly labeled a Chinese APT crew, showcasing a willingness to challenge larger powers, which is a departure from historical reticence among many countries to call out China. The change signals a transformation in global attitudes towards cyber threats and a decreasing fear of potential repercussions for speaking out. Such actions may indicate a broader trend where smaller nations feel empowered to assert their cybersecurity interests in the face of larger adversaries.
Decline of Bulletproof Hosting Services
The episode also covers the decline of Russian bulletproof hosting services, particularly Z servers, which faced significant setbacks due to international intelligence actions. Reports reveal that Australia's signals intelligence agency played a role in deleting critical data from these services, leading to operational challenges for cyber criminals. This action is highlighted as part of a broader strategy to counter cybercrime, suggesting a more proactive stance from intelligence agencies in combating online threats. The implications of these operations are profound, as they not only disrupt criminal networks but also showcase a willingness to openly engage in frontline cyber warfare.
In this podcast Tom Uren and Patrick Gray talk about the idea of launching a retaliatory campaign to hack Chinese telcos in response to Salt Typhoon’s targeting of US ones. US Senator Mark Warner floated the idea as a way to persuade the Chinese government to pull back Salt Typhoon, but we think that kind of campaign has merit regardless.
They also discuss how Samoa’s CERT calling out APT40 is a big deal. It’s striking to see a small country of 200,000 people calling out Chinese hacking.