In this bonus for CAFE Insiders, Elie Honig and Safeena Mecklai take listeners behind the scenes of the fourth episode of Up Against the Mob. They discuss the challenge of managing relationships with cooperating witnesses, navigating high profile investigations, and the dynamic between prosecutors and FBI agents.

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Up Against the Mob is produced by CAFE Studios and the Vox Media Podcast Network. New episodes drop every Wednesday. Subscribe on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen.

Executive Producer: Tamara Sepper; Senior Editorial Producer: Adam Waller; Technical Director: David Tatasciore; Audio Producers: Matthew Billy; Composer: Nat Weiner; Editorial Producers: Noa Azulai, David Kurlander, Sam Ozer-Staton, Jake Kaplan.

Insider Bonus: Babysitting Sammy the Bull