Bryan Ward-Perkins, author of The Fall of Rome, and the End of Civilization, discusses the horrors of the fall of Rome and challenges the idea of a smooth transition. He highlights the importance of combining archaeology and history to understand Roman civilization. The disappearance of pottery-making and decline in livestock size during the fall of Rome are explored. Pollution levels in the Roman Empire and external pressures on Rome are also discussed.
The fall of Rome resulted in a significant decline in living standards and economic complexity, causing suffering for millions of people for centuries.
Civilization should be measured by economic and social complexity, not as a moral judgment, emphasizing the importance of appreciating the benefits that complexity brings.
Deep dives
The Collapse of Roman Civilization
In this podcast episode, Brad Harris speaks with Brian Ward Perkins, the author of The Fall of Rome and the End of Civilization. They discuss the conventional view that the Roman Empire collapsed due to barbarian invasions, as well as the more recent counter narrative that argues for a transformation of Roman culture rather than a complete collapse. Ward Perkins emphasizes the importance of considering the material culture and economic impact of the fall of Rome, noting that millions of people suffered and living standards declined for centuries. He challenges the idea that the dark ages of Europe were merely a transition period and urges a more balanced view that acknowledges the suffering caused by the fall of Rome.
Exploring the Historiography of Rome's Fall
This podcast episode delves into the historiography of the fall of Rome, examining different interpretations and conflicting claims. The conventional view of the fall of Rome as a cataclysmic disaster is contrasted with the counter narrative proposed by some historians since the 1970s. These historians argue that Roman civilization never truly collapsed but rather transformed as Germanic tribes migrated into Roman territories. Ward Perkins adds to this debate by emphasizing the significance of dramatic political, military, and economic changes that accompanied the fall of Rome. He suggests that recent trends in historical writing may have overstated the positive cultural developments of late antiquity, while overlooking the suffering caused by the collapse.
The Economic Impact of Rome's Fall
In this podcast episode, Ward Perkins highlights the economic regression and decline in living standards that followed the fall of Rome. He notes the disappearance of technologies like the potter's wheel, the decline in the production of high-quality pottery and tiles, and the disappearance of the coinage system. The archaeological evidence of reduced production, trade networks, and economic complexity points to a significant impact on the population and overall well-being. This economic regression affected not only human populations but also the livestock population. Ward Perkins suggests that the loss of economic complexity and specialization led to a decline in the quality of life and a regression in the overall development of Western Europe.
Examining Complexity, Comfort, and Civilization
In this podcast episode, Ward Perkins raises the question of how civilizations should be judged and compares levels of complexity and comfort. He argues that civilization should be understood as a measure of economic and social complexity rather than as a moral judgment. The collapse of the Roman Empire resulted in a loss of the material comforts and specialized production that facilitated a higher living standard. He emphasizes the importance of appreciating the benefits that complexity brings, such as improved access to knowledge, cultural exchange, and overall well-being. Ward Perkins also highlights the precarious nature of complex societies, which should not be taken for granted.
It has become fashionable to argue that Roman civilization never collapsed, but was merely transformed by Germanic culture. Although this counter-narrative can illuminate intellectual developments of Late Antiquity, it verges on cultural relativism that threatens to obscure real differences in how people flourish or suffer. Ward-Perkins' book is a welcome reality check of how dark the post-Roman age really was.