Tristan Harris and Daniel Schmachtenberger discuss the ethical implications of social media, exploring its impact on attention manipulation and public trust. They unravel how social media exacerbates polarization and disinformation, while exploring AI text generation capabilities. The conversation delves into navigating power dynamics in technology, analyzing social media algorithms' influence on political messaging and radicalization. They explore decentralized democracy, Apple's customer-centric approach, and the influence of QAnon on individuals seeking purpose.
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Quick takeaways
The algorithm-driven nature of social media platforms amplifies divisive content and hinders effective governance in democracies.
Exponential technologies like AI and CRISPR pose a threat to global stability by decentralizing catastrophic capabilities.
Balancing individual power and wisdom is crucial to responsibly navigate the exponential tech revolution without compromising civil liberties.
The challenge in a polarized society lies in achieving enough cooperation to address real issues amidst a lack of shared sensemaking.
Finding a third way that ensures the responsible use of exponential technologies without sacrificing civil liberties is a crucial challenge in modern society.
Deep dives
The Impact of Social Media on Democracy
The podcast explores the role of social media in polarizing political bases and hindering effective governance in democracies. The algorithm-driven nature of platforms like Facebook and Twitter amplifies divisive content and rewards negative and extreme viewpoints. As a result, politicians are incentivized to appeal to a polarized base, further perpetuating division. This feedback loop creates an imminent national security threat, as it hinders the continuity of governance in the face of crises and amplifies the influence of external actors.
The Dangers of Decentralized Power in the Digital Age
The advent of exponential technologies, such as AI and gene-editing tools like CRISPR, has decentralized power and placed catastrophic capabilities in more hands. It has the potential to reshape traditional geopolitical dynamics and poses an imminent threat to global stability. The fragility of interconnected systems, coupled with the radicalization of individuals and their access to powerful tech, creates a concerning scenario. It raises questions about how to navigate this landscape without compromising civil liberties or succumbing to centralized control.
The Urgent Need for Wisdom, Prudence, and Governance
The current state of affairs calls for a nuanced approach to address the challenges posed by social media and the exponential tech revolution. It is crucial to bridge the gap between the power wielded by individuals and the wisdom needed to responsibly navigate this power. The goal should be to avoid the dystopian extremes of centralized control or unrestrained, decentralized chaos. It requires thoughtful regulation, informed decision-making, and a collective effort to ensure the power of technology is harnessed for the greater good.
The Challenge of Cooperation in a Polarized Society
In a polarized society, the challenge lies in how to achieve enough cooperation to address real issues. As the division between different factions and beliefs grows, it becomes increasingly difficult to make shared sense of the world, hindering effective action. The rise of exponential technologies further exacerbates this problem, as their impact on society outpaces our ability to understand and respond. The key question underlying various global challenges, from AI and CRISPR to market regulation and financial crises, is whether we can collectively make sense of our world and make choices that lead to positive outcomes.
The Dystopian Dichotomy of Centralization vs Decentralization
When it comes to managing exponential technologies, there seems to be a dichotomy. On one hand, there is the risk of centralized power, leading to dystopias, where a few entities control and manipulate society. On the other hand, there is the danger of decentralized catastrophes, where unregulated technologies cause significant harm. The rise of autocratic nations and tech corporations employing exponential tech for their own goals highlights the negative implications of centralized power. At the same time, decentralized technologies and an unregulated information landscape can feed viral misinformation and societal polarization. Finding a third way that ensures the responsible use of exponential tech without sacrificing civil liberties is a crucial challenge.
Exploring the Case of Taiwan and Democratic Innovation
Taiwan offers an interesting case highlighting the potential of employing technology for democratic innovation. The country's digital minister, Audrey Tang, focuses on leveraging technology to strengthen democracy and enhance citizen participation. By combining digital tools with in-person and online civic engagement processes, Taiwan aims to create a stronger democracy that values open governance, transparency, and collective intelligence. This approach stands in contrast to autocratic nations that use technology to strengthen their control and influence over their populations. It offers a potential alternative to the centralized models that could address the challenges of democratic sense-making and decision-making in the digital age.
The Importance of Business Models Aligned with Values
Choosing business models that prioritize values over maximizing attention and engagement, such as Apple's focus on customer privacy, can lead to more ethical and sustainable solutions in the tech industry.
The Need for Radical Solutions in Democracy
To address the challenges of social media polarization and information fragmentation, society needs radical solutions that combine personalized education, civic engagement platforms, and a collective commitment to creating a better system. These solutions require a shared understanding of the problems and a public will to take action.
The need for transparency and bridging different perspectives
Creating transparency and oversight for institutions is crucial in addressing societal challenges. Initiatives like the Social Cohesion and Technology Council aim to match groups like Braver Angels and Search for Common Ground with technology designers to apply conflict mediation and shared reality to technology design. By changing people's intuitions and human nature, technology can be designed to promote bridge-building and meaningful connections rather than conflict-seeking. This shift is essential for addressing social issues at their root, such as work inequality and the need for human connection.
Technology's impact on human nature and the path towards a humane future
The current state of social media and technology exploits human vulnerabilities and promotes conflict and sensationalism. However, a more humane future is possible by changing our perspective on technology and design. By prioritizing human connection, meaningful choices, and genuine engagement, we can create a different kind of technological landscape. This requires developing technologies that enhance attention control, memory, and perspective seeking, while incentivizing kindness, resilience, and reflection. It is a collective and complex challenge, but by bringing together diverse perspectives and focusing on emergent order, we can navigate the meta-crisis of our technological advancement and create a better future.
Tristan Harris is a former Google design ethicist, co-founder and president of the Center for Humane Technology, and co-host of the Center for Humane Technology’s "Your Undivided Attention" podcast with Aza Raskin. Daniel Schmachtenberger is a founding member of The Consilience Project, aimed at improving public sensemaking and dialogue.
