BONUS: NVC, Walking Towards Conflict with Love With Maria Arpa and Bob Marshall

In this BONUS episode, we explore Nonviolent Communication (NVC), a powerful tool that has changed how many people work and relate to family, friends, and colleagues. Maria Arpa, a previous guest on the podcast, and who studied directly under Marshall Rosenberg, the creator of NVC, shares her insights on this transformative practice. Joining us is Bob Marshall, an NVC advocate and practitioner who applies these principles in organizational settings.

Understanding the Foundation of Nonviolent Communication

"We have universal needs... what we try to distinguish is the need and the strategy I'm using to meet the need."

Nonviolent Communication is both a practical communication tool and a spiritual practice designed to help us connect more authentically with ourselves and others. Maria explains how NVC emerged from the work of Dr. Marshall Rosenberg, who studied under Carl Rogers, the developer of person-centered therapy. At its core, NVC represents a paradigm shift away from what Maria calls "domination culture" – a system built on hierarchy, punishment, and obedience to rules.

The dominant culture in which we live often relies on fear, guilt, and shame to motivate behavior. In contrast, NVC comes from the philosophy of nonviolence, encouraging people to be independent thinkers who make choices from their own internal compass. This approach recognizes that all people have the potential to manifest love, even in challenging situations.

The Power of Needs-Based Theory

"If I take a need for fairness or respect... how many ways are there to meet that need? And what if you believe you're meeting your need for fairness using whatever strategy you're using, and I believe that is impacting on my need for respect? We have a collision in strategies."

A fundamental aspect of NVC is needs-based theory. Maria explains that while we all share universal needs – from basic physical requirements like air and food to psychological needs like creativity, recognition, and fairness – conflicts arise not from the needs themselves but from the strategies we use to meet those needs.

This distinction between needs and strategies offers a powerful framework for resolving conflicts. When we understand that we're arguing over strategies, not the underlying needs, we can empathize with each other and explore different approaches that honor everyone's needs. As Maria advises, "Don't try to strategize until you understand all the needs on the table."

Breaking Free from the Debate Model

"The debate model of conversation is about one argument prevailing over all others... it's a terrible idea for when we want to meet as humans and have a conversation."

Maria highlights how our society has embraced the debate model of conversation, where one perspective must win over others. This approach, while potentially useful in controlled settings like scientific research, creates significant problems in human interactions. When operating in debate mode, we're focused on overpowering others or protecting ourselves from humiliation rather than genuinely connecting.

The dialogue roadmap that Maria developed offers an alternative to this debate model. It allows people to express themselves fully – to "empty out" everything they're carrying, even if it doesn't initially make coherent sense. This process helps people make sense of their experiences and move toward authentic dialogue rather than competitive debate.

NVC in Organizations: Addressing Collective Needs

"Needs are getting ignored in most organizations... it's not that we have shared needs and we debate about the strategies for getting those needs met."

Bob Marshall, an organizational psychotherapist, explains how NVC principles can transform workplace dynamics. He observes that many organizations operate through "fear, obligation, guilt, and shame" – what he calls "the four horsemen of the work apocalypse." These mechanisms are used to control behavior but create toxic environments that diminish both productivity and well-being.

By applying NVC in organizational settings, Bob helps collective entities recognize and address their needs. Many companies are unaware of their collective needs, and some cultures even shame people for acknowledging needs exist. Helping organizations understand their shared needs creates a foundation for healthier, more productive workplaces where people can thrive rather than merely survive.

In this segment, we refer to an episode with Michelle Pauk, where we explore the lessons from Foucault’s Book Discipline and Punish, and to Manfred Max-Neef, a Chilean economist.

The Connection Before Correction Principle

"One of the most wonderful things is connection before correction."

Maria emphasizes the importance of building relationships before attempting to change behaviors or address problems. She suggests that our fast-paced world has created a situation where our emotional processing cannot keep up with the speed of our actions and decisions. We've become skilled at multitasking and meeting deadlines but haven't paid adequate attention to our emotional needs.

The result is that many people are emotionally "backed up" or "constipated" – unable to process their feelings in healthy ways. Maria's work involves slowing things down to create space for authentic connection and emotional integration. This approach doesn't sacrifice efficiency – as she notes, "We get more done with less resource once we've been through the tunnel."

Learning Directly from Marshall Rosenberg

"Marshall Rosenberg said, 'The people that are going to take this forward will have the right balance of compassionate understanding and political savvy.' And I just went, 'That's me.'"

Maria shares her personal journey with NVC, beginning with a chance encounter at her son's school that led her to attend a presentation by Marshall Rosenberg. She was immediately captivated by his approach, which answered questions she had been unable to resolve through other therapies and educational frameworks.

Her pivotal experience came in 2005 when she joined Rosenberg and others for a 15-day intensive in Switzerland focused on social change. This immersive experience transformed her understanding of communication and human connection. When she asked Rosenberg who would carry his work forward, his answer about needing both "compassionate understanding and political savvy" resonated deeply with her, setting her on a path to develop her own applications of NVC principles.

In this segment, we refer to the book The Surprising Purpose of Anger by Marshall Rosenberg.

About Maria Arpa and Bob Marshall

Maria Arpa is a facilitator, mediator, and trainer who describes her work as "walking towards conflict with love." She developed the Dialogue Road Map, a framework that builds on NVC principles to guide people out of debate-style conversations into authentic dialogue. Maria studied directly under Dr. Marshall Rosenberg and has applied NVC in various challenging contexts, including working with gang violence and facilitating dialogue between concentration camp survivors and a business that had purchased a former concentration camp site.

You can link with Maria Arpa on LinkedIn and follow Maria’s work on her website.

Bob Marshall is an organizational psychotherapist who works with the collective psyche of organizations. He has been studying and practicing NVC for over 15 years, incorporating it into his work helping organizations understand and meet their collective needs. Bob believes in creating more joyful work environments and has dedicated his career to helping people have more pleasant experiences in the workplace.

Bob Marshall is the author of several books on organizational psychotherapy.

You can link with Bob Marshall on LinkedIn and follow Bob Marshall’s blog.

Farmer Scott