Eli Lake interviews Jonah Goldberg, founding editor of the Dispatch, discussing the inevitability of a GOP Trump nomination, Trump's post-election behavior and assault on peaceful transition, conservative oppression, changes in debate culture, teaching kids despair versus empowerment, shift in political parties, and the imprecision of arguments and the importance of understanding perspectives.
The growing likelihood of Donald Trump securing the Republican nomination in the upcoming primaries, despite some doubts and potential scenarios where he may not be the nominee, suggests it would be unwise to bet against him becoming the nominee.
Navigating the perception of Trump as an existential threat to the republic requires intellectual honesty, understanding the asymmetric nature of power, and engaging in productive discussions without equating the resistance to Trump with the dangers he poses.
In the current political landscape, policy issues have taken a backseat to tribalism and political signaling, with a focus on aligning with tribes rather than evaluating the impact of policies, further exacerbated by the lack of strong parties that effectively vet candidates.
Deep dives
The Rise of Trump as the Republican Nominee
The podcast discusses the growing likelihood that Donald Trump will secure the Republican nomination in the upcoming primaries. Despite some doubts, the podcast suggests that it would be unwise to bet against Trump becoming the nominee, given his recent surge in popularity. While there may still be potential scenarios where Trump is not the nominee, it is increasingly unlikely. However, the podcast also notes that all hope is not lost for those opposed to Trump's candidacy.
The Perception of Trump as an Existential Threat
The podcast explores the perception of Trump as an existential threat to the republic. It acknowledges that while there have been legitimate critiques of Trump's behavior and actions, there are also concerns about the resistance to Trump being seen as a danger. The podcast emphasizes the importance of navigating this issue without equating the two sides. It suggests that intellectual honesty and understanding the asymmetric nature of power in society are crucial for having productive discussions about the impact of Trump and the resistance to Trump.
The Impact of Rhetoric on Political Stakes
The podcast delves into the impact of extreme rhetoric on the political discourse and the potential consequences it may have. It discusses the Atlantic symposium that branded Trump as a potential dictator and explores whether such rhetoric raises the stakes in an unproductive way. The podcast argues that while the concerns about Trump's behavior after the election are valid, it is important to consider how the rhetoric may reinforce extremist viewpoints and push away potential voters. People should strive for intellectual honesty and avoid resorting to popular front arguments that hinder constructive debates.
Navigating Political Divisions and Ideological Differences
The podcast highlights the challenge of navigating political divisions, especially when holding center-right or conservative ideologies. It emphasizes the importance of acknowledging problems on both sides of the political spectrum while understanding the differences in power dynamics. The podcast encourages rejecting the 'no enemies to the left or right' mentality in favor of intellectual honesty and not solely focusing on popular front arguments. It promotes the idea of persuading others through civil discourse and engaging with the median person in the room, rather than solely appealing to the base.
The importance of cultural signaling to suburban white voters
Cultural signaling plays a key role in politics, particularly in appealing to suburban white voters. Colin Powell's endorsement of a Democratic candidate wasn't solely aimed at winning black votes, but also to assure suburban white voters that the Republican Party wasn't racist. The fear of being associated with a racist party is prevalent among college-educated individuals who come from environments that reject racism. Thus, political messaging often prioritizes cultural signaling over addressing specific policy issues.
Policy issues matter less, tribalism and political signaling prevail
In the current political landscape, policy issues have taken a backseat to tribalism and political signaling. This is particularly evident in the rise of Trump, who frequently changes positions without facing consequences. The focus has shifted towards which side or tribe one aligns with, rather than the actual impact of policies. The lack of strong, robust parties that effectively vet candidates exacerbates this issue, as candidates like Bernie Sanders, Donald Trump, and Joe Biden have been able to run without proper scrutiny. The absence of a cohesive party structure further hampers productive political discourse and decision-making.
In this interview only episode, Eli talks to Jonah Goldberg, host of the Remnant Podcast and a founding editor of the Dispatch. They discuss the inevitability of a GOP Trump nomination and the recent warnings that a second Trump term will bring the end of democracy.
