Antony Loewenstein, a fierce critic of Israel and the Zionist project, debates with Josh on the establishment of Israel, its exclusionary policies towards non-Jews, the moral complexities of supporting Israel, global perception and criticism, Israel's exportation of spyware and military hardware, and the parallels between apartheid in South Africa and the current situation in Israel.
Israel's actions and export of surveillance technology perpetuate oppression in Palestine and contribute to the rise of anti-Semitism worldwide.
Israel's occupation serves as a testing ground for surveillance tools that are then promoted and sold globally, enabling control over dissidents and human rights activists.
It is crucial to acknowledge and address the deep-rooted racism at the heart of Israeli political life and ensure open discussions to promote justice and peace for all.
Deep dives
Israel's creation and ethnic cleansing in 1948
Israel was created in 1948, proudly excluding anyone who was not Jewish. The plan was to try to kick out as many Palestinians and Arabs as possible. This aim of ethnic cleansing has continued throughout the years, with Israel's current government becoming more extreme. There is deep racism at the heart of Israeli political life, which extends to the Jewish diaspora. The occupation and discrimination against Palestinians fuels anti-Semitism and makes Jews everywhere less safe.
Israel's role in surveillance technology
Israeli company NSO Group developed Pegasus, a notorious spyware tool, which can be installed on smartphones and allows complete control over someone's device and personal information. Pegasus is used by governments, military, and police departments in democracies and dictatorships alike. Israel's decades of surveillance experience in Palestine have led to the development of powerful tools and technologies that are now exported worldwide, enabling control over dissidents, critics, and human rights activists. Israel's occupation serves as a testing ground for these tools which are then promoted and sold globally.
The impact of Israel's actions on the global stage
Israel's actions and export of surveillance technology have far-reaching consequences. It perpetuates oppression in Palestine and enables human rights abuses against Palestinians. The occupation and discrimination undermine Israel's claims of being a thriving democracy and pose challenges for Jews worldwide. The actions of the Israeli government contribute to the rise of anti-Semitism and reinforce double standards applied to Israel compared to other Middle Eastern countries. Israel's misuse of security justifications further endangers Jews everywhere. It is crucial to acknowledge and address the deep-rooted racism at the heart of Israeli political life and ensure open discussions to promote justice and peace for all.
The reality of apartheid in Israel
The podcast episode discusses the concept of apartheid in Israel and Palestine. The speaker argues that there is a legal definition of apartheid, which includes the idea that Jews have a supremacy over non-Jews in Israel. The episode highlights that major human rights organizations, both Israeli and Palestinian, have published reports in recent years recognizing the existence of apartheid in Israel. The podcast also compares the situation in Israel to the apartheid era in South Africa, emphasizing how Israel and South Africa had close relations and both inspired each other's oppressive policies. The speaker argues that the world needs to acknowledge and address the apartheid system in Israel and Palestine, with a particular focus on questioning the role of international powers that accept and support Israeli occupation and discrimination.
Israel's role in global surveillance and arms trade
The podcast episode explores Israel's involvement in the global surveillance and arms trade. It highlights how Israel's military hardware and spyware, including drones and surveillance technology, are being used by numerous countries around the world, including the European Union. The speaker argues that Israel not only sells these tools but also exports the occupation by testing and refining these weapons and technologies on the Palestinian people. The episode points out the complicity of the international community in enabling Israeli oppression, as many countries rely on Israeli technology and weapons for their own border security and surveillance efforts. The podcast warns of the dangers of this growing global reliance on Israeli innovations, emphasizing the need to question and challenge the expanding use of these tools in repressive contexts.
Is Zionism a noble goal, or a form of colonial apartheid? Is a two-state solution possible? Desirable? Antony Loewenstein is a fierce critic of Israel and of the whole Zionist project. His new book is The Palestine Laboratory: How Israel Exports the Technology of Occupation Around the World. He and Josh debate the rights and wrongs of a Jewish homeland.
