Episode #136 – Alex Genadinik on Gaming Search Engine Recommendation Algorithms To Rank (and bank)

John McIntyre: It’s John McIntyre here, The Autoresponder Guy; I am here with Alex Genadinik. Now Alex reached out to me actually a few weeks ago about putting an Udemy course together on email marketing and so, we’ve decided to partner and put together a whole how to, you know, how to basically make money every time you send an email.

A course that’s gonna be on Udemy. It’s gonna be a quite – a – it’s gonna be pretty comprehensive. Now this podcast really isn’t about that. What we’re gonna do is – I wanted to dive into some of what Alex does coz he does some pretty amazing SEO stuff and he even has some almost like ninja hacks to game recommendation algorithms which I think he’s been using on Udemy to sell – I think he has 60, 000 students or something incredible like that.

So he’s very good at SEO, but not just SEO it’s, you know, understanding how to gain that recommendation algorithm, how to sell more products on Udemy, it’s really interesting stuff like that, that you don’t really – you don’t usually hear about especially from your run of the mill, you know, SEO consultant that you know all they do you know is build a few links and send you sign up.

So here we are today, I’m here with Alex. Alex how you doin mate?

Alex Genadinik: I’m doing great John. Thank you for having me on. Thank you for all the hard work you do for putting together the podcast and I’m excited to share my strategies with your audience.

John McIntyre: Awesome, awesome, cool! So I mean like I said we’re doing the course, now we’ll talk about that at the end you know we’ll go through sort of what it’s gonna be about and where they can get more information, all of that, but right now let’s dive into – before we get into some of the like the nitty gritty advanced SEO and the recommendation algorithm and stuff like that, can you give the listener just some background like who are you and what do you do?

Alex Genadinik: Oh yeah. So I started off as a software engineer and you know I got a computer science degree, but when I worked as a software engineer for a company it was always – always it felt so limiting, right? Because I was kinda spending my time just making other dreams – people’s dreams come true like I would walk by the CEO’s office and he’s job always seemed more fun and I was like, “I want that job,” but like you know – but as a programmer they just wanted you to sit in a corner and like just go and you know it was a little – a lot boring.

So you know always – I was tinkering with stuff like in the morning, in the evening, on the weekends I was like trying to build my own things and of course they would you know – programmer you know like nothing of the business so, you would fail all the time. And it just would fail like miserably, but over time I started like learning you know little bit more about business which is like really a mysterious thing for like if you’re a software engineer.

And things started failing less and less and then you know at one point I started making successful products with my first special products were like the business planning apps on Android and now the iPhone and for the last 4 years they’ve been like the number 1 – if you search for the word business on Android in fact for the last few years it’s been like the top, top app like literally number 1 and behind me is a bunch of million dollar companies – I laugh at them, but in those apps they’ve gotten like over a million dollars all together now and then after the apps you know because they were business apps I was seeing all the issues people were struggling with and that sort of formed my books and now you know fast forward a little bit, I have like over 15 books on Amazon.

And then I started answering people’s questions on the apps in video which you know now I have like 8 YouTube channels with like a million views. And that really led me to – the YouTube experience really was a training ground for me and led me to Udemy which is where like you know you make more premium video premium educational content and basically online courses and I really fell in love with that because the fantastic platform and the students really loved you know learning and I – actually I love sharing what I know and really I love helping people prevent the mistakes that I was making when I was just learning business coz a lot of the mistakes I would make later on, when I would look back at it I was like, “Wow if only I had an adviser or somebody like only in like a 5 minute conversation, they could have like prevented me from this like 3 months mistakes.”

And so now I’m really happy that I’m able to help others avoid those kinds of mistakes in their businesses just by providing like you know really sometimes common sense, but sometimes events you know business and marketing advice.

You know online app, app books, courses and YouTube so, that’s pretty much how I started and where I am now.

John McIntyre: Awesome so, you know it’s interesting, I think, because you mentioned one thing that like programmers aren’t you know not usually good at business, I’m not usually marketers. The thing is there’s a lot of like – you know there’s a decent amount of you know I think you know fairly successful entrepreneurs that listen to this podcast, but there’s also a segment that are beginners or they’re wantrepreneurs or they still have a job and they’ve heard about, in my case, it’s gonna be copywriting and you know so my story was I was in the Philippines and that was where I sort of got my chops, but you know some people you know they’re working in New York, they’re working in a western city in Sydney or where ever they’ve got a job, they want to quit, they want to have this lifestyle, and so they focus on marketing, but – here’s the interesting thing is most people – it’s you know it’s funny that in the internet marketing eco-chamber most people who are really good at marketing don’t make any money and so I think what’s really cool about what you’ve done is you’re not coming from a marketing background. You’re coming from the technical programming background and you’ve managed to figure things out and get some pretty incredible results.

Alex Genadinik: Yeah thanks. Yeah actually the engineering degree does help a lot especially kind of like decoding – trying to decode the Google algorithms and the different algorithms of the like different websites.

I think that just mindset actually ended up helping you know and just like kind of like more analytical I don’t know if I’m more analytical, but something about it made it a little bit more natural for me and it definitely also it helped me because I was able to actually make the apps whereas a lot of people who – they don’t have like the engineering degree. They struggle with the apps or making products because they have to outsource and dump a lot of money and then most of the time they’ll be at a lost, you know?

In my case I had to make like – there’s almost 200 iterations of my app you know different things I’ve tried with them. And that’s just my main app. And if I had to outsource and hire anybody that would – it would’ve been like over $100,000 or like – so that’s kinda how I have a little bit of advantage coming from the tech.

John McIntyre: Yeah, okay. So anyhow if I was listening to this I – you know I guess I technically am listening to this coz I’m right here, but if I was a listener right now I’d be wondering, “How the hell do I get a million downloads,” or, “How the hell do I you know hack a you know a SEO algorithm so I can you know ultimately make money? And you know whether to quit my job and travel or whether it’s you know grow my business or double the business? Whatever it is I want to know how to do it.” So where do we start?

Alex Genadinik: So I think people don’t necessarily need to get into apps, I think people need to get into something at least where they’re comfortable with and especially if people are first time entrepreneurs.

There’s a very famous blog post by Mark Suster you know – I don’t know if you’ve ever come across of it, but deer hunting – and it talks about how for the first time entrepreneurs should go deer hunting and for people who are you know into animals’ rights – I’m also into animals’ rights, I’m not in – I’m not into hunting, but that’s just a blog post.

And it really talks about like you can hunt rabbits, deer, or elephants, right? And if you kill rabbits they’re easy to kill, but there’s no meat there. And if you kill elephants they’re really hard to kill, right? So if you’re a first time entrepreneur you should try to find an area like that’s a deer. It’s not that hard to kill, but there’s a lot of meat there and that’s what I’m talking – and what I mean by that is kind of like there’s enough money to be made there, but the competition isn’t that insane, right?

If you try to go, “Oh I love travel why don’t I try to go after the travel industry?” well that’s an elephant and you probably and everyone [?] else. So you wanna go with something – after something smaller, but whatever you end up deciding on choosing in what – you should think about also you know the niche, but also the platform, right?

And a lot of people want – people first start out the first thing that they learn about marketing is like – and literally what – when I – on my apps coz people enter like their marketing plans and literally like 80% of the people they enter the same marketing plan which is like the newbie – “I’m gonna promote my business with Facebook, Twitter, business cards and flyers.” And that’s what like almost, to my surprise, like almost 80% of the people literally you know they enter that, but as soon as they get a little bit more savvy they get into like, “Oh I’m gonna do you know social media and SEO.” And then they kinda start doing the Google searches you know which is just like a mountain to climb in almost any niche at this point.

And I think you know if I had done that with my business, right? Like my business is about business and marketing, right? I would never rank for these firms. Business planning? Forget it! Starting a business? Forget it! Right it’s just like in a – so my business would be dead.

And so I think the first thing that I’d like to get people to think about is to realise that there are – almost everything online is a search engine, right? And I think back in the day that meant Yahoo! or Bing, but really what I would mean is like Amazon is a search engine, mobile app stores are a search engine, iTunes are search engine, Yelp is a search engine if you’re business is a local business.

Almost any place. You know YouTube is a search engine so, almost any place online – a huge part of the discovery happens through search and I think that in – not I think, but it’s true that in all those search engines you can – the actual I see on the ranking which is how you people can get the traffic is infinitely easier than if they did it on Google search so, like for example my app is like number 1 on Android for the search business, right? And has been for the last 2 years there’s like no way I would break into the top 10, even, for you know on Google search for that.

And so I ended up finding like easier hills to climb in terms of SEO. And it’s important to keep in mind that any of the search engines they can give you, if you’re a small business, a flood of traffic. They’re all gigantic.

And then you know what else would kinda like to tell people is like don’t – like don’t – like SEO is great, but don’t just focus on SEO because what most people don’t even realise is that the real volume of traffic actually does not always come from SEO and you can get even more traffic if you can leverage the recommendation algorithms, right? Because on SEO you’re only gonna – even if you’re number 1for some search term you’re never gonna get more traffic than people are searching for that search term. So there’s always a limit.

Whereas if you leverage the recommendation algorithm for you know any website that website is gigantic so, for example if you’re on Amazon and if you’re recommended you know people who bought this book also bought your book. Well if your book appears next to some of the top books there are intimately more sales you can make than if you’re ranking for whatever keywords you’re after. Even if you’re keywords are pretty juicy. So – and most people don’t really think that.

John McIntyre: Hmmm.

Alex Genadinik: People just stop at SEO, but I also want to get people to notice that whatever there are search engines online these secondary non-Google search engines? Like Google does not have a recommendation algorithm, but almost everything else does.

Amazon does, YouTube does, Udemy does, like you mentioned, you know even the Yelp does to a lesser degree. There is – once you get the – those websites to – once you get those websites recommendation algorithm which would favour your product you’re just gonna get a flood of traffic. You won’t even know where they’re coming from because they don’t tell you and that’s why most people don’t quite yet – there – it’s not a visual thing. Most people don’t even see that their product is getting recommended next to other products.

And that’s why it never registers with – in the most people’s minds. Like SEO is visual. You can see your ranking; you check where you see where you are. What – when you’re getting recommended you actually don’t see it unless you sort of know to aim for it, you know how to try to manipulate it and then you check up on it. And – I mean I call it in advance strategy. I mean in marketing like nothing is rocket science like it’s not like brain surgery, but I – most people don’t do it I kinda call it events and I think this is something that like most people don’t even – not only they don’t do it, but they don’t like even think to do it.

John McIntyre: Hmm. That’s fascinating you know coz most people are thinking about how do I rank first? I would say search term, but yeah you’re right like if you get ranked for the recommendation algorithm you get to capture all the traffic to Udemy or the potential. It goes way, way, way up.

The same with Amazon and all these sites so, all right, so in this case it sounds like – so in the – you know in the bill we’re trying to rank a website in Google this isn’t really gonna apply to them, but it’s almost like you know if you want to learn how to get traffic and perhaps an easy way in trying to rank your site in the search engine is gonna be creating a product that you can sell on a platform like Amazon or Udemy or something that has a recommendation algorithm and then figuring out how to rank coz that might be creating a course on Udemy and then someone will say, “Well you got to market it and you know that is a bit of a challenge,” but if you could figure out how to get the – to gain the algorithm you could probably make more money on Udemy with a lot less effort and you don’t have to spend any money on paid traffic.

Alex Genadinik: Right and I’ll tell you even a further point that the you know the – you know Google SEO – the reason small companies like our can’t rank is because Google SEO Algorithm at the moment strongly prefers very authoritative domains. So you know stuff like from cnn.com, even if it’s almost not related, it will outrank you.

Just because they’re cnn.com, right? So – but Udemy and YouTube and Amazon and all those places they are the authoritative websites so, it’s actually easier to rank in Google with your Udemy course, your YouTube video, your Amazon page – right your Amazon listing. Those things will rank more likely higher than your website so, it’s actually a nice way to sink into Google. And you can do SEO for those pages. The links you might deal with the social media you might share. You can do them – that for your listings on Udemy, YouTube, Amazon, and those listings will actually often rank above your actual website.

So that’s like another added benefit of building a business on these large platforms coz you also get that SEO benefit.

John McIntyre: Okay.

Alex Genadinik: From Google.

John McIntyre: Okay so let’s say that – let’s say that I’m convinced. Let’s say that I’m – like all right I’m sold, I want to do this, I’m not gonna create my website, I’m gonna go create a course on Udemy or Amazon or something like that. What – how do I do it? What’s the – how does this magic work?

Alex Genadinik: Right so, you always have to build a product that’s competitive in quality, right? Because whatever it is, you might write a book or you might create a course, all of these websites, let’s call them “search engines” they track – when your product goes live they track signals and signals are typically engagement signals and social signals like engagement signals are like you know our people you know, if it’s Udemy, they track like are people making it their way through the course, right?

What’s the course completion rate? Are people quitting the course at some point, right? Obviously people are quitting earlier than competitive courses then that’s a plus 1 for the competitive courses rank.

Then there are the social things like reviews, right? And diff – you know user gigantic everywhere. Yelp, Amazon, Udemy.

If you can… So you can have these signals that these search engines collect and they’re all very similar across the board coz they can’t be different because they’re all search engines, they all work on same principles just different search engines track slightly different…

John McIntyre: So what are these principles?

Alex Genadinik: …things…

John McIntyre: Coz it sounds like – coz you’re a technical guy, right? So maybe for you – you know coz I’ve seen this like I’m somewhat technical, but probably more so… Yeah I’m a musician back – you know back – and I think I’m very creative. So I’m like – I mean I kinda get it, but when you say that …

Alex Genadinik: Yeah.

John McIntyre: …all search engines are sort of the same thing well what do you mean?

Alex Genadinik: So like they track – they have these clues that they collect, right? About how people are using your product and they collect that about your product and about competitive products, right?

So, for example, with my apps they collect – so the clues are you know, like I mentioned, they’re reviews, right? And the quality of the reviews and then on apps it’s like another issues you know, “Am I getting the numbers up daily downloads? And out of those downloads how many people are keeping the app? How many people are deleting the app? How many people are opening it daily? How many times are they opening it daily? For how long?” So all those things are clues that the search engine – that’s you know – that’s the app store collects, right?

John McIntyre: Hmmm.

Alex Genadinik: But if you look at Amazon they’re almost identical because the reviews are there, right? The number of purchases – so the number of total engagements you know that’s a signal that they collect and also they you know they can track at the Kindle how many pages people are reading, right?

So if people are reading a larger percentage of your book compared to a competitor’s books that’s a big plus for you. Same with Amazon – sorry same with YouTube, right?

If people are watching your videos longer than competitor videos that’s a big plus for you. So across the board they just want to track are people engaging with your product longer? That’s a big you know it’s not the definitive signal, but it’s one of the very strong ones because people are quitting early. That’s a bad, bad sign, right?

John McIntyre: Hmm.

Alex Genadinik: And it’s something – it’s hard for you to manipulate. Like reviews? You can manipulate them you know if you’re a marketer you know you can manipulate reviews by asking your friends, having you know black cat’s strategies whatever, but that more like let’s say grey area strategies, but there’s engagement signals that’s really – it’s actually comes from the design of your product. It’s comes from the quality of the product that you create because if they product is good people are gonna go through it.

If the product is not good they’re gonna quit it and that’s – so you see all these things – so what I call number of engagements which is purchases, downloads on the app stores, views on YouTube, purchases on Udemy those I call like engagements and reviews and total engagements which is a little bit confusing coz I’m using the word engagements and engagement in different ways.

But – and also the acceleration of this so, sometimes if you’re getting downloads or views faster than the competitor that’s a big plus for you, right?

John McIntyre: Hmm.

Alex Genadinik: And so sometimes what I try to do, and here is a kind of an advanced key wording tip, coz again all of these things are search engines, right? So key wording is very important.

So in one headline – in one title which usually the most key word – the key words in the title are usually the heaviest weighted I try to rank – I try to aim at multiple variations of keywords. So like business plan is a good example, right?

Business – in one headline I might say, “Business Plan: Learn How to Write a Business Plan and something, something business planning today,” or engage with – so I kind of – basically I have different permutations you know how to write a business plan you know whatever. Like yes – I don’t know if that was clear. Like maybe I’ll try another one like I have a Facebook marketing, right?

John McIntyre: Hmm.

Alex Genadinik: I have like a Facebook marketing video that’s been ranking on YouTube for Facebook marketing which is like a really competitive term. And so the – in that title I ranked for like Facebook marketing, Facebook marketing strategies, how to promote your business on Facebook. And so basically I put a lot of different combinations of potential key words into the title and so, what that does is I get views from all those keywords whereas the competitive videos only get views from one keyword.

John McIntyre: Hmm.

Alex Genadinik: So my engagement – my total views are always more than the competitors.

John McIntyre: Right okay.

Alex Genadinik: And because of that, yeah, and also the secondary thing because of that over time that’s – that actually influences the recommendation algorithm and Facebook starts putting me on better and better other videos like, “Hey people come watch this video – also likes Alex’s video,” which gives me even more views.

And that’s really the way to leverage these is to create a competitive product, SEO it so that you can get a lot of traffic from different keywords that you’re targeting, not just 1 keyword, and that acceleration of views or purchases or whatever, that’s gonna trigger – it’s not the only thing, but it’s one of the strong triggers of getting eventually recommended by this website which really is all the best worlds, right?

And by the way that ultimately – that recommendation? That also helps you rank higher because you’re getting more views and more engagement and more overall you know everything, right?

More purchases more views and then you get propagated to be number 1 and when you are in number 1 for something like number 1 for good for some topic, number 1 video for some topic, that’s the thing that gets put into actual Google search. So over time you could truly make a competitive grade product – whatever it is course, video, a book, you will get this – your traffic from that search engine, like say from Amazon or YouTube. You will get their recommendation algorithm traffic from that search engine, but also this will put you in the best position to rank in the actual Google search more than your website would do that.

John McIntyre: Cool okay so, to break this down coz I know we’re coming up on time here. To break this down into a step by step process, it sounds like step 1 is basically create like build shit that matters and build something that’s actually of value whether it’s writing a book or creating a course or anything. Whatever it is you’re creating make sure it’s just valuable.

And then that – having a valuable product makes the rest easier which is pretty basic business concept, but so then it’s a case of making sure you’ve got a keywords in the title you know making sure – trying to get like a bump of traffic at the start coz if you do that you get a momentum – sort of like you get a little bit of an edge and then you’re authority in terms of the algorithm grows – if I – it sort of starts of outpace your competitors and even if you’re in the .10% ahead that 10% compounds over time eventually to the point where no one can catch up.

Alex Genadinik: Yeah and you do amazing defensibility coz, exactly, it’s very hard to build to jump over you and you just get entrenched in your number 1 position.

John McIntyre: Awesome cool, okay well that’s – I think that’s a pretty – I think it’s a good little episode. I think someone could take this and create a product, as long as it’s good, and apply some of these concepts and probably do pretty well at it. And if you got an email list and you know how to write some emails and you probably do if you’ve been listening to this podcast, you can do even better because you know how to drive traffic from your email list through your course on Udemy or on Amazon or whatever it is which is gonna create that edge so, let’s wrap that portion up there.

Now let’s talk about the product that you and me are putting together. Tell me a bit about – so since you’re the Udemy expert I know I’ve created the outline and what it’s gonna be about.

Why don’t you tell me, tell the listener as well, why you wanted to do this and so, we can get them a little bit of an insight into your thinking behind it and why we decided to do this.

Alex Genadinik: Well for me I’m always like the traffic guy. Like I know how to leverage SEO, I have a ton of courses on the social media, SEO you know all business accounts apps, but you know it’s funny because I, myself, I’ve been a little bit behind on email marketing.

And I feel like it’s the perfect complement to the other courses that I have because you know email marketing is so amazing because you know in business a lot of people are always after the subscription model, right? The reoccurring revenue model, but it’s so hard to sign people up for that because you know people obviously they’re not stupid they know they’re gonna not use the product and like keep paying, but the closest thing to it is email marketing in a sense because people don’t have to sign up for a subscription or a paid subscriptions or anything, but like you can even – you can rechannel them time and time again.

If you can engage them it’s almost like they’re subscribed to something you can sell to them time and time again and make thousands of percent more money from them.

John McIntyre: Hmm.

Alex Genadinik: So I find just doing a course on exactly how to engage them, exactly how to form the emails, exactly how to like you know you got to sign up and you know that sign up doesn’t answer your emails why not, you know?

Like it’s so much work to actually get the person to sign up for your email and then they’re just dormant and they don’t open it. So I think this course was – I really wanted to do the course because I really wanted to open up that extra source of traffic, extra source of purchases which will, in turn, help to influence those – all those algorithms if you can get the army of your email subscribers to actually do what you need them to do.

It’s almost like having like a marketing army for you every time you want something, every time you promote something, then you have your own list. And so that’s why, I mean, that that email marketing is so amazing. And I really wanted to do the course.

John McIntyre: Okay cool. I mean you pretty much summarized it right there. Basically we’re creating a course on, obviously, email marketing. It’s called, with a tentative title, any way this might change I guess if we want to put keywords in there. The title I came up with was “The Ultimate Guide to Sending – ” let me actually bring out the whole thing. It’s “The Ultimate Guide to Email Marketing” here’s the outline.

“The Ultimate Guide to Email Marketing” I think its how to grow your list, build your audience, make money every time you send an email.

So just going to run through – I’m gonna do a pretty comprehensive run-through of everything that I know about email marketing that I’ve learnt from doing 130 episodes – over 130 interviews now on this podcast and in launching “ReEngager” which is a new ink on the wall [?]. Somewhat new eCommerce email marketing agency. And it’s already going to this course and then based on the feedback where we’re gonna try to put something together that after that, on specific topics that people want to learn. More about – there’s gonna be a – quizzes in there so you can refresh everything and make sure that you’re understanding it so, you know some cool engagement pieces and a bit of homework at the end of every section to keep you focused.

And one of the cool things that I’ve got – I’m gonna mention there is – I had a product, ages ago, called “Stories That Sell” and that’s gonna be one of the modules – one of the sections in there so, you’re gonna talk about stores and break down the framework I developed called the HIPS Framework” which will show you how to write stories in your emails to help you to sell more products.

Basically pretty straight forward so, we’re gonna have all that now the link – to learn more about the course – coz by the time this goes live, as in right now, as you’re listening to it. This course is probably gonna be live. Yeah check it out go to themcmethod.com/udemy U_D_E_M_Y.

Okay so we’re gonna start – that’ll – I’ll set up that link so it redirects directly to the course page. And later on if we create a second, third, fourth, or when we create a second, third, and fourth course what we’ll do is we’ll update that link and that’ll take you to a landing page where you can look at all 3 or 4 or 5 courses or however many there are. So that is www.themcmethod.com/udemy U_D_E_M_Y to learn more about that.

Now Alex before we go, if someone want to get in touch with you or learn more about you or check out your Udemy channel, I don’t know what you really call it, but where’s the best place for them to do all of that stuff?

Alex Genadinik: You know I always suggest people email me, but my email is so brutal because it has my last name on it. And so my website is problemio.com it’s problem I_O.com which is, I guess, the easiest thing I have to spell, but so it’s basically easiest to – and all my – my email’s there you know you just go to the bottom and there’s contact agent.

I’m always happy to hear from people and if people can remember my name it’s Alex Genadinik and if you just type in that into Google a million things come up. One of them is you know Udemy – my Udemy courses and I think if people can actually find the show notes of this podcast maybe there’ll be a link to all my courses and the discounts for them.

So if you’re good at like finding, remember my name and spelling it, then there’ll be discounts for you.

John McIntyre: Awesome.

Alex Genadinik: But really it’s problemio.com it’s problem I_O.com and all my stuff is there especially go to the bottom contact us and I’m always happy to hear from people it’s my business is sort of predicated on helping people so, I love to hear from people and I welcome people to reach out.

John McIntyre: Awesome so, I just went to Google and typed in Alex Genadinik so, it’s A_L_E_X it’s pretty easy. The surname is Genadinik so G_E_N_A_D_I_N_I_K. now if you search for that too you’re gonna find the number 1 result right here is your Udemy page. We’ve got linkedIn, there’s – looks like there’s something on Amazon which Twitter, then you got problemio – so basically you can either go to Google and type in Alex Genadinik or you could go to themcmethod.com, find the show notes, and I’ll have links to all of this. You know the Udemy page and problemio as well as themcmethod.com/udemy that’ll all be at the show notes as well.

So we’ll cover all our bases in there there’s no way that you can’t find this so, I think we’re good. Are there any final words of wisdom?

Alex Genadinik: I – you know I think the smartest thing, for me, I just realized, because you know I am like a SEO guy, I should’ve make, when people type into Google, Alex G that should bring up my name. You know in the suggestion box.

John McIntyre: Yeah I know what you mean. I’m gonna check that. You should do that I mean that’s your recommendation algorithm for Google right?

Alex Genadinik: Yeah I’ll make that. That’ll be such a good thing. Like Alex G that’s just me, you know? All you have to do is just Alex G that will solve all my last name problems.

John McIntyre: All I’m seeing – Alex Grey comes up. Have you ever done this in Google? This is just a bit of fun at the end of the episode. Just go in and type in, “Alex is a – Alex is a…”

Alex Genadinik: I’m doing that right now.

John McIntyre: Do it right now – tell me what see it is.

Alex Genadinik: I do come up – Alex G. I am there.

John McIntyre: Really?

Alex Genadinik: But now right now I’m like 1,2,3,4,5,6th,7th, 8th person.

John McIntyre: Ah okay. I’m only seeing the first four, but if you say, “Alex is a…” you’re gonna see, “Alex is a poo.” I wonder what it says, “John is – ”. “John…

Alex Genadinik: Alex is a dork.

John McIntyre: “John is a doctor who does not make house calls.” Here we go, “John is a 6 year old with chronic serous otitis media. Treatment for his condition would be…”

“John is a self-employed computer consultant…”

Alex Genadinik: I think – for me it says, “John is awesome.”

John McIntyre: I mean that’s pretty cool too. What did you do, John… ? “John McIntyre is a – ” nothing comes up. That surname doesn’t work. Anyway we – it’s just a bit of fun at the end of the episode. So yeah.

Alex Genadinik: I think what – maybe this is messed up. I think it’s messed up, but if I just type Alex into Google I am number 4 like in the recommendation, but maybe that’s just because it’s for me here.

John McIntyre: That’ll – yeah that’ll be because you’re logged in, it’s tracking your IP or cookies or…

Alex Genadinik: But then I’m logged into something else, but I’m like in a browser room, but maybe it’s smarter than me.

John McIntyre: They – I mean maybe. Maybe there’s some – maybe the ghost in that machine. Anyway we’ll wrap it up here. I’ll have links to all this in the show notes at the mcmethod and if you want to learn more about email marketing and how to make money every time you send an email, the best thing you could do is check out that Udemy course. And I’ll see you in there. Alex thanks for coming on the show man.

Alex Genadinik: Thanks for having me, it was really fun. And I hope my strategies really help your audience.