With 25 years of experience as an intelligence officer, John Ramirez has extensive knowledge about how the US intelligence community collects information, which agencies collect which kind, and how to use FOIA requests effectively to gain access to information that has never been requested in the right way before. For example, agencies probably have electronic and other information related to the Tic-Tac and Gimbal videos released by the Navy Department that would be made available if the right requests were made to the right places. Here, John tells us how each agency collects information and what each would be likely to possess. He was in Technical Electronic Intelligence, and also served in the Directorate of Intelligence, and in the National Counter Proliferation Center.

THEN, in the third half hour, there develops one of the most profound conversations in the long history of Dreamland when Whitley asks John about his own experiences. As an intelligence officer who has also had extraordinary experiences, John is very definitely not alone, but his eloquence and candor are unique. This beautiful and enlightening conversation between him and Whitley is unforgettable.
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