The Reason Interview With Nick Gillespie

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Are Americans Addicted to Conflict?

Oct 8, 2025

Guest

Lionel Shriver

Lionel Shriver, acclaimed novelist known for works like We Need to Talk About Kevin, discusses how society interprets tragedies, particularly in light of recent events. She critiques the notion of assigning meaning to violence while reflecting on the dangers of political polarization and the rise of 'political religion.' Shriver shares her views on immigration, expressing concerns about cultural assimilation, and hints at themes from her upcoming novel, A Better Life, which tackles the complexities of the migrant crisis.

50:42

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ANECDOTE

Recovery From Debilitating Illness

Lionel Shriver described recovering from major back surgery that triggered Guillain-Barré syndrome and left her physically incapacitated.
She rebuilt muscularly from near infancy and now can stand and exercise again.

insights

INSIGHT

Don't Inflate Tragedies' Meaning

Shriver warns against overinterpreting tragic events and giving perpetrators outsized historical significance.
She argues sometimes tragedies simply don't mean anything and we should refuse to accord them excessive importance.

insights

INSIGHT

Conflict Becomes Cultural Glue

Living in Northern Ireland taught Shriver that societies can become dependent on conflict for identity and meaning.
That dependency makes ending violence harder because people rely on polarization to define themselves.

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Shriver's Health Battles and Recovery

01:32 • 3min

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Should We Overinterpret Tragedies?

04:07 • 2min

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Why We Seek Meaning in Mass Shootings

06:13 • 2min

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Living Through Conflict: Lessons from Northern Ireland

08:40 • 2min

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Origins of Polarization and Political Religion

11:03 • 3min

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From Anti‑Woke Focus to New Interests

14:29 • 2min

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Formative Influences and Making One's Own Mind

16:29 • 3min

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Why Rand Paul Once Mattered to Her

19:07 • 3min

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Abandoning the Libertarian Label

22:28 • 24sec

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Ambivalent Relationship with Trump and Harris

22:52 • 2min

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Assessing Trump's Results and Policy Concerns

24:51 • 1min

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Free Speech Fears and Government Overreach

26:07 • 2min

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Literary Influences and Craft Goals

27:54 • 4min

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Mania: Satirizing Social Hysterias

31:27 • 4min

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Generational Shifts and Youthful Credulity

35:17 • 5min

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Restoring Historical Literacy and University Reform

40:04 • 32sec

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A Better Life: Fiction from the Migrant Crisis

40:36 • 2min

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Concerns About Mass Immigration

42:12 • 7min

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Welfare State vs. Open Borders Tradeoff

• Mentioned in 13 episodes

Mandibles

Jeff Strand

Mandibles is a dystopian novel exploring themes of societal collapse, economic instability, and the resilience of the human spirit. The story follows a family's struggle to survive in a post-apocalyptic world ravaged by economic turmoil and environmental disaster. The novel's exploration of resource scarcity, social unrest, and the breakdown of traditional systems offers a cautionary tale about the fragility of civilization. The characters' resourcefulness and determination to rebuild their lives in the face of adversity highlight the enduring strength of the human spirit. Mandibles serves as a powerful reminder of the importance of preparedness and adaptability in the face of unforeseen challenges.

#19618

• Mentioned in 2 episodes

A Better Life

Lionel Shriver

#8434

• Mentioned in 4 episodes

Revolutionary Road

Richard Yates

Set in 1955, 'Revolutionary Road' by Richard Yates explores the lives of Frank and April Wheeler, a couple living in the suburban Revolutionary Hill Estates in Connecticut. The novel delves into themes of adultery, abortion, failed marriages, and the emptiness of suburban consumer culture. Frank and April, who see themselves as different from their neighbors, are trapped in a life that does not align with their aspirations. The story highlights their attempts to break free from their suburban rut, particularly through April's plan to move to Paris, and the devastating consequences of their self-deception. The novel is known for its vivid and metaphorical descriptions, its critique of the American Dream, and its exploration of the isolation and communication failures within relationships.

#5344

• Mentioned in 7 episodes

We Need to Talk about Kevin

Kate Mosse

Lionel Shriver

The novel is written from the perspective of Eva Khatchadourian, the mother of Kevin, who committed a mass murder at his high school. The story is told through a series of letters from Eva to her estranged husband, Franklin. It delves into themes such as the nature vs. nurture debate, the challenges of modern parenting, and the aftermath of a tragic event. Eva's ambivalence towards motherhood and her complex relationship with Kevin are central to the narrative, which also explores the societal and personal factors that may have contributed to Kevin's actions. The book is a poignant and thought-provoking examination of family dynamics, guilt, and the unconditional love of a parent for their child.

#2228

• Mentioned in 15 episodes

Escape from Freedom

Erich Fromm

In 'Escape from Freedom', Erich Fromm examines the human relationship with freedom, distinguishing between 'freedom from' (negative freedom) and 'freedom to' (positive freedom). The book discusses how the rise of democracy and the destruction of feudal societies led to a new kind of freedom that many individuals found overwhelming. Fromm argues that this sense of freedom can lead to feelings of alienation, anxiety, and a desire to escape these feelings through mechanisms such as authoritarianism, destructiveness, and automatic conformity. He also analyzes the psychosocial conditions that facilitated the rise of Nazism and other totalitarian regimes. The book is divided into sections that explore the historical transition from medieval to modern society, the psychological factors at play in contemporary society, and the dissection of authoritarian societies with a vision of potential alternatives.

#7451

• Mentioned in 5 episodes

Mania

Lionel Shriver

In 'Mania', Lionel Shriver critiques the extremes of political correctness and radical egalitarianism through a satirical narrative. The story is set in a world where the Mental Parity Movement has abolished exams, degrees, and formal education, promoting the idea that all human brains are the same. The protagonist, Pearson Converse, rebels against this new order, facing dire consequences, while her friend Emory Ruth embraces the movement. The novel explores the consequences of such a society on various aspects of life, including education, healthcare, and politics.

The Reason Interview with Nick Gillespie is a libertarian podcast that goes deep with the artists, entrepreneurs, politicians, and visionaries who are defining the 21st century.

Today's guest is Lionel Shriver, the provocative writer best known for novels like We Need to Talk About Kevin, The Mandibles, and, most recently, Mania.

We talked a few days after the assassination of Charlie Kirk, an event whose lasting significance she cautioned against overinterpreting. "We want tragedies to mean something," she said. "And maybe they don't." Shriver offered cutting critiques of Gen Z socialists, Tucker Carlson, Kamala Harris, and President Donald Trump, whom she said is devoid of "any firm principles."

In a New York Times op-ed a decade ago, she thanked Rand Paul for "nominally refurbishing libertarianism so that it is halfway respectable," but now says the term has become tarnished as "far right." She told me that she is one of "those sad people who occasionally still says they would like a smaller government" and isn't "interested in massive social control." Yet she seems to be growing more conservative, making dismissive comments about "the trans thing" and arguing against large-scale immigration, which is also the topic of her next novel, A Better Life, that is set to be released early next year.

This interview was recorded live at an event in New York City.

0:00—Introduction

1:44—Lionel Shriver's health battles

4:06—The danger of overinterpreting events

11:02—Weaponizing identity for conflict

19:06—Shriver's views on libertarianism

22:54—Donald Trump and Kamala Harris

27:51—Shriver's novelist inspirations

32:27—Gen Z's problematic relationship with history

41:59—Concerns about mass immigration

Producer: Paul Alexander
Audio Mixer: Ian Keyser

The post Are Americans Addicted to Conflict? appeared first on Reason.com.

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