Was Slavery Bad?

Aug 21, 2025

Sherrilyn Ifill, a renowned civil rights lawyer and former head of the NAACP Legal Defense Fund, joins the discussion to dissect contemporary democracy and its pitfalls. She gives American democracy a dismal grade and traces its issues back long before Trump. The conversation probes how integration drained public funds and questions the courts' role as an equitable branch of government. They also tackle the legacy of slavery, media distortions, and the need for community action in preserving historical truths and democratic values.

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INSIGHT

Democracy Is Failing From Institutional Erosion

Sherrilyn Ifill grades U.S. democracy a 'D' due to collapsing institutions and weakening foundations.
She warns democracy fails not only from leaders but from the erosion of independent institutions.

INSIGHT

Integration Triggered White Withdrawal From Public Goods

Ifill explains white backlash turned public goods into contested terrain after Brown v. Board and the Civil Rights Act.
She links white withdrawal from public schools and parks to long-term defunding and segregation's aftereffects.

ADVICE

Intentionally Recreate Shared Public Spaces

Build intentional public spaces that compel diverse people to interact, like parks and schools at town centers.
Invest in school infrastructure and shared institutions to rebuild social cohesion and civic habits.

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On episode 93 of Native Land Pod, hosts Tiffany Cross, Angela Rye, and Andrew Gillum are forced to remind all of us that slavery was, in fact, bad.

Fitness trainer and TV personality Jillian Michaels was on Abby Phillip’s CNN show recently making some wild claims about how slavery wasn’t that bad, wasn’t just committed by white people, and wasn’t actually that big of a part of the country’s founding because “only 2%” of Americans owned slaves… We have so many questions y’all–like why this person with no journalism or history experience featured on a CNN panel–but first we have to address some of her specific claims and misleading “facts.” We’ll hear from Nikole Hannah-Jones herself (the creator of the 1619 project).

Our guest, Sherrilyn Ifill, gives American democracy a “D.” But, she says, our problems started long before Trump. She joins the NLP hosts to identify the weak points of our democracy and what building blocks might remain in a post-Trump era. Then, a deep dive into how integration led to the draining of public funds, and whether or not the courts will hold as a co-equal branch of government. Ms. Ifill is a renowned civil rights lawyer and scholar who served as the President and Director-Counsel of the NAACP Legal Defense and Educational Fund, Inc. Besides her many scholastic accolades, Ifill was also named one of the 100 Most Influential People in the World by TIME Magazine.

Sign the Petition to Save the Blacksonian: https://www.change.org/p/defend-the-smithsonian-s-national-museum-of-african-american-history-and-culture

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We are 439 days away from the midterm elections. Welcome home y’all!

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Native Land Pod is brought to you by Reasoned Choice Media.

Thank you to the Native Land Pod team:

Angela Rye as host, executive producer and cofounder of Reasoned Choice Media; Tiffany Cross as host and producer, Andrew Gillum as host and producer, and Lauren Hansen as executive producer; Loren Mychael is our research producer, and Nikolas Harter is our editor and producer. Special thanks to Chris Morrow and Lenard McKelvey, co-founders of Reasoned Choice Media.

Theme music created by Daniel Laurent.

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