Daniel Shapiro, former U.S. ambassador to Israel and a key architect of the cease-fire-for-hostages deal underway between Israel and Hamas, said on the Haaretz Podcast that the "ultimate condition" of any post-war settlement for Gaza must be the removal of Hamas from power.

Shapiro, speaking to host Allison Kaplan Sommer on the week Israel received the bodies of the murdered Bibas family, said the "terrible and heartbreaking" event revived memories of the days following October 7, when "there were many, many people in the U.S. administration who, in addition to doing the focused, hard work of trying to figure out what the right policies were and prepare for the military and the diplomatic decisions, also had to stop in the middle of the day sometimes and just weep a bit because the brutality was so profound."

Discussing President Donald Trump's plan to empty the Gaza Strip of its Palestinian residents, Shapiro advised those welcoming the plan not to get their hopes up. "I can understand the appeal of it to some Israelis who might say, 'well, yeah, it might make our problem of 2 million Palestinians disappear and make the United States own this problem so we don't have to worry about it,' he said, "but that doesn't make it any more serious. It's not going to happen."

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Remember Nintendo 64? (with Wolfgang Van Halen of Mammoth WVH)