Vincent Bevins, author of If We Burn: The Mass Protest Decade and the Missing Revolution, discusses the absence of disciplined Leninist organizations in global mass protests. Topics include the rise of right-wing power after protests, the concept of Leninism and efforts to avoid mistakes of the Bolshevik Revolution, the influence of the horizontalist model on mass protests, media's role in shaping the narrative of the Arab Spring, misunderstanding of protests in the global South, and the intersection of social media and police repression in mass protests.
Mass protest movements often lead to unintended outcomes, such as the rise of reactionary forces.
Lack of organizational cohesion allows the co-optation of protest meanings by external forces.
Understanding both the objective conditions and subjective interpretations is crucial in assessing the consequences of mass protests.
Media representation and social media play a significant role in shaping the narrative and outcome of mass protests.
Deep dives
The Unintended Consequences of Mass Protest Movements
The podcast explores how mass protest movements can often lead to unintended outcomes, such as the rise of reactionary forces, instead of achieving the desired change. The episode focuses on the book 'If We Burn: The Mass Protest Decade and the Missing Revolution' by Vincent Bevins. Bevins analyzes the history of global mass protests from 2010 to 2020, examining movements in countries like Tunisia, Egypt, Brazil, Ukraine, and Turkey. The podcast highlights how these movements created revolutionary situations, but lacked the organized structures necessary to seize power and govern effectively. This lack of organization allowed for the re-consolidation of extreme reactionary forces, resulting in outcomes opposite to what the protesters intended.
The Complexity of Mass Protests: The Case of Brazil
The podcast delves into the case of Brazil, specifically the 2013 mass protests against transit fare hikes in Sao Paulo. The protests, initially started by the anarchist-oriented Movimento Pase Libre (MPL), grew into the largest protest in Brazilian history. However, the meaning and direction of the protests were co-opted by right-wing forces, leading to the delegitimization of the left-wing Workers' Party government of Dilma Rousseff. The podcast highlights how the MPL struggled to adapt to the influx of new participants and diverse interpretations of the protests' goals. This lack of organizational cohesion allowed the formation of the movement for a free Brazil (MBL), funded by neoliberal networks, which ultimately pushed the country towards a far-right presidency under Jair Bolsonaro.
The Challenge of Interpreting Mass Protests
The podcast underscores the challenge of interpreting mass protests, as objective conditions and subjective understandings can diverge. The example of Brazil demonstrates how the objective conditions of raising expectations for improved public services may not align with how people subjectively understood their participation in the protests. The intentions of the protesters and their desired outcomes can be overshadowed by external forces that co-opt the meaning of the protests. The podcast emphasizes the importance of understanding both the objective conditions and the subjective interpretations of mass protests in order to grasp their complex and often unpredictable consequences.
The Legibility and Representation of Mass Protests
The podcast discusses the legibility and representation of mass protests, highlighting how the meaning of protests is often imposed by external forces. The Brazilian media played a significant role in shaping the narrative and interpretation of the protests, shifting from demanding crackdowns to portraying the protests as a patriotic uprising. The success of the protests in terms of participation and visibility made it difficult for the original organizers, such as the MPL, to maintain control and effectively communicate their goals. Ultimately, the right-wing forces capitalized on the malleability of protest meanings and gained power, leading to the election of the far-right president Bolsonaro. The podcast emphasizes the intrinsic challenge of representing and interpreting mass protests, as different actors vie for influence and reshape the narrative.
The Role of Media in Shaping Protests
The podcast discusses the influence of media and social media on mass protest movements. It highlights how social media platforms like Facebook and Twitter were initially seen as tools that would make the world more democratic and free. However, the episode points out that this optimism has since faded, with social media now being blamed for spreading disinformation and enabling authoritarianism. The podcast emphasizes the need to understand the systemic issues behind social media-fueled protests, such as the reproduction of structural inequalities and the impact of police repression.
US-led Capitalist Hegemony and Protest Movements
The episode explores the influence of US cultural hegemony on protest movements around the world. It highlights how the ideologies and assumptions rooted in US liberalism were often imposed or adopted by movements in different countries. The podcast argues that these ideas shaped the repertoire of tactics and the way protests were framed and understood. It discusses how the dominance of US corporations in the media and social media landscape amplified certain ideological projects and hindered the ability of movements to speak for themselves and articulate their specific demands.
Global Solidarity and the Importance of Context
The podcast promotes the idea of cross-border solidarity and inspiration among protest movements. It celebrates the heartwarming moments of global solidarity and the ability of movements to draw inspiration from one another. However, it also emphasizes the need for movements to critically evaluate the context in which their tactics and demands originated. The episode encourages activists to consider the differences in material conditions and to avoid simply copying and pasting tactics that may not be effective in their specific circumstances. It advocates for a nuanced approach that combines inspiration from global movements with a deep understanding of local realities.
Featuring Vincent Bevins on If We Burn: The Mass Protest Decade and the Missing Revolution. The first of a two-part interview on this important new book.
Support The Dig at Patreon.com/TheDig and ask Vincent a follow-up question.
Buy Reform, Revolution, and Opportunism: Debates in the Second International, 1900-1910 haymarketbooks.org/books/2109-reform-revolution-and-opportunism
Buy War Made Invisible thenewpress.com/books/war-made-invisible
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