Untrapping Product Teams Podcast Beyond Frameworks: Six Years of Testing Business Ideas with David J. Bland
What worked yesterday to re-risk ideas no longer works today.
David J. Bland used to say, “Building is the most expensive part.” In the age of AI, that’s no longer true. And many teams are shifting from learning first to building first. Either you like it or not, that’s what’s happening. The question is, how do we deal with our new reality?
If you care about building what matters faster, you will find this podcast insightful.
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Having David J. Bland on the podcast was an honor. His book Testing Business Ideas has a special place on my shelves, travels to workshops, and has genuinely changed how I think about testing ideas. So, when he agreed to talk, I expected to gain insights. What I got was something better: honesty.
David admitted his thinking had evolved, and he wished he could change a few things in his book. He talked about being conflicted by his own framework. He shared stories of teams he coached that got stuck testing forever. This wasn't a polished thought leader performance. This was a practitioner reflecting on six years of real work since his book launched.
The conversation reminded me why I respect him. He's still learning, still questioning his own methods, still trying to solve the messy reality of how teams actually work.
If you've read his book or tried business experiments, you need to hear this conversation. David's thinking has evolved, and so should yours.
Even if you haven’t read the book, the benefit you will have from these 40-minute lessons will quickly pay off.
Learn more about David J. Bland:
* Website
What David Taught Me (And What Might Surprise You)
1. Teams aren't the problem. Systems are.
"Your teams are going to figure out how to work this way. Now it's becoming, okay, do we have an environment that allows us to work this way?"
We keep training teams on experimentation while ignoring the organizational barriers that kill experiments. David now spends most of his time on strategy and leadership because that's where the real constraint lives.
2. Light evidence is still evidence
"I've stopped using that weak language, as I said, so now I'm using light and strong. I feel like when you say the term weak, and you go to an executive or a sponsor, they almost have a reaction to that word."
Even David's language has evolved. He learned that calling evidence "weak" made executives defensive. "Light evidence" frames it as directional rather than inadequate.
3. The say-do gap will fool you every time
"I wouldn't spend a lot of money on just what a customer tells me. I want a little more skin in the game."
Customers lie. Not intentionally, but they do. What people say they'll do and what they actually do are different things. Design experiments that reveal behavior, not just opinions.
4. B2B experimentation works better than most think
"I would say almost all of my customer base is B2B companies right now."
David's client base shifted from B2C startups to B2B enterprises. Which experiments work best? Preference and prioritization tests. Things like card sorting customer jobs or using "buy a feature" to force real trade-offs.
5. Over-testing is a real trap
"I just vividly remember sitting down with the VP of product and she was like, why are they still testing this?"
Early in his career, David got teams excited about testing, but didn't teach them when to stop. Teams continued to test safe assumptions while overlooking risky ones. His framework now includes systematic assumption mapping to prevent this.
6. AI changes the building equation
"I don't know if I could go and say building is most expensive way to learn because I'm like, no, it's not. I can build this in a couple hours."
AI tools let you craft functional prototypes quickly. This changes David's core message. Building isn't the most expensive way to learn anymore. Building the wrong thing still is.
7. Keep humans in the loop
"I've been really trying to evangelize this human in the loop. If you're not in the loop, sometimes you get a list and you're like, wait a second, these assumptions are for experiments for assumptions that don't even really apply to me."
AI can help generate assumptions and experiments, but you need to stay involved. David learned this from his own AI tools when people got generic results from vague inputs.
8. Most empowered teams aren't actually empowered
"I feel like we're following this advice where we're sort of like checking the box and following steps of a process. But when this process was initially created, it meant we were critically thinking about things."
Teams follow experimentation frameworks, but can't question why they're building something. That's not empowerment. That's process theater.
9. Start where you're stuck
"I would look for areas where there were things that we were trying to solve for and we weren't able to. And so being able to say, well, why don't we just go check?"
Don't try to change everything. Find problems your organization can't solve and suggest checking assumptions. Use language like "I'm sure you're right, but can we go check?" to reduce defensiveness.
10. Mindset beats methods
"I can find probably within the first 60 seconds, whether or not they're going to be coachable."
David can tell immediately if someone will succeed with experimentation. It's not about intelligence. It's about being open to being wrong. Fixed mindset kills every framework.
The Real Takeaway
David spent six years watching teams apply his book. Some succeeded. Others got stuck in the process without progress. The difference wasn't the tools. It was the environment, the mindset, and the willingness to actually change based on what they learned.
This conversation isn't about perfect frameworks. It's about the messy reality of trying to build things people want in organizations that resist change.
Worth your 40 minutes. Trust me on this one.
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Have a lovely day,
David.
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