In the second part of our conversation, Shadi Hamid and I get into a conversation about the contradictions of liberal universality. Should we want Islamists to become liberals for instance? Shadi argues for a liberalism that can appeal to the most possible people and I argue that, given we can never escape contestable premises, a liberalism based on progress best makes sense of these contradictions. Sponsor the show on Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/PoliticalPhilosophyPodcast