How to Take Your Email Marketing to the Next Level

In April during our Unite coverage, I had dinner with Carson McComas, the owner of Shopify Plus agency Fuel Made, and we got to talking about our mutual love of marketing automation, and specifically Klaviyo.

Now, if you’re not using Klaviyo, that’s okay. Don’t tune out, hear me out.

Carson mentioned to me that they were having great success with Klaviyo to the point where they were pushing the limits of ecommerce email marketing automation.

I immediately knew I had to have the rest of the conversation on this show.

So I emailed Carson, and here’s what he said:

“Would love have Lisa on with you. She's the bomb and knows email marketing and Klaviyo like a pro. She's generated some pretty incredible ROI for our clients like Beardbrand.”

Lisa heads the email marketing department at Fuel Made, she specializes in Klaviyo Email Marketing, and she knows it like the back of her hand.

She's looked through 100's of Klaviyo accounts, helping clients add tens of thousands of dollars in automated monthly revenue by setting up their triggered marketing.

In this episode, LIsa Oberst is going to walk this through the very same Klaviyo email marketing automation campaigns she's used to add huge value to Shopify stores like BeardBrand.

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Work with Kurt

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Learn how:

• Why and how to start with email marketing
• What to do before starting with email marketing
• The three typical lead magnet formats Lisa uses, and how to brainstorm Lead Magnets that capture emails
• The safe & polite way to offer your opt-in
• The 3-step approach to pop-ups
• The basic segmentations you must have
• The 4-step email cart abandonment email that converts
• The uncommon email that converts at 9% for BeardBrand
• Lisa’s one-tip from

Links Mentioned:

• Get Lisa’s Email Marketing Checklist!
• Klaviyo - Get your free account
• FuelMade
• BeardBrand
• Leno’s Garage
• HelloBar
• InkedGaming

Free Guide

I want to send you a sample chapter of Ecommerce Bootcamp, absolutely free.

Tell me where to send your sample at ecommerce-bootcamp.com

Transcript

Kurt Elster: Recording from Ethercycle headquarters outside Chicago. This is the unofficial Shopify Podcast and I’m your host Kurt Elster. You heard our wonderful Shopify Unite coverage, which was very exciting. One of our best, our most listened two weeks ever; 7,000 downloads something crazy. We’re going to crack a quarter million downloads. I’m really, really excited. I could not have done it without you guys. It’s amazing. It’s been a wild ride. Anyway continuing on that Unite coverage, I met with a lot of really interesting bright people there and that’s where I have been picking up some wonderful guests, was from networking at Unite.

One of the first things I did, was go to a VIP dinner there and the gentleman sitting to my left at this dinner was none other than Carson McComas your Shopify Plus Agency Fuel Made. We got to talking pretty quickly about our mutual love of marketing automation and specifically Klaviyo. Now, if you’re not using Klaviyo, that’s okay, don’t turn out. Here me out here, because a lot of marketing automation principles will work across several different platforms and just that I like and endorse Klaviyo. Carson mentioned to me that they’re having great success with Klaviyo to the point where they are pushing the limits of ecommerce email marketing automation.

At which point, I heard the needle scratch in my head and I immediately knew I had to hear the rest of this conversation on the show so that you could benefit from it. Of course, I want to learn too. I do most of my learning through this podcast truthfully. It’s great resource for me. I emailed Carson right away and I said, "Hey, come on the show. You’re a great person, I want to hear this." He replied, and I am quoting. He said, “I’d love to have Lisa on with you. She’s the bomb and those email marketing in Klaviyo like a pro, she’s generated some incredible return on investment for clients like Beardbrand. I could not have wrote a better intro myself.

Now I know Lisa has female marketing department at Fuel Made. I’m told she specializes in Klaviyo email marketing and she knows it like the back of her hand. I believe it. She has looked through hundreds of Klaviyo accounts helping clients at tens of thousands of dollars in automated monthly revenue by signing up their triggered marketing, so Lisa, thank you for joining us.

Lisa Oberst: Thank you, Kurt, great intro. I appreciate that.

Kurt Elster: My pleasure. Tell me, give me briefly, give me your Klaviyo background, how did you get into this?

Lisa Oberst: Sure, so about two years ago, a little bit more, I moved to L.A. and joined a three-person team that was building an agency specialized in Klaviyo. That’s really when I started my special connection to Klaviyo and since then I’ve been just needy in Klaviyo, so about a year ago, I joined Fuel Made and I’ve been developing our Klaviyo email marketing at Fuel Made.

Kurt Elster: Very good. You’ve worked with some big brands including a well known Shopify rockstar who’s been on the show once before the Beardbrand guys were very cool, tremendous business and probably them evangelizing their experience is really contributed to the explosion of beard oil products, which is crazy to think about. Aside from that, so certainly you have street cred, but let’s dive into it. First, make the case for email marketing in general. I will play devil’s advocate. People go, "Email marketing is dead. It’s all about social media." Help me make the case for email marketing?

Lisa Oberst: Sure, that shouldn’t be too hard. A lot of stores that I start a conversation with don’t have any email marketing in place. The most important thing, they don’t even have a need capture in place. They have no way of even starting a conversation with leads who come through their store. I know, Kurt, you know about this. It is so important to capture all of this traffic that you’re spending money on to get to your store and that is not going to convert. About 98% of visitors are not going to convert on a first purchase, because you need to have the opportunity to start up a conversation with these people before they leave your store.

Kurt Elster: Yeah, as an example, let’s say I got the most optimized store in the world. I have some clients with really optimized stores. They do 5% conversion rate, that’s amazing. That means for every hundred people that go to that store 95 of them don’t buy anything, they just show up and bounce. Whereas, email marketing lets you turn anonymous visitors are more or less useless to you. Email marketing is going to let you provide value to them. Start building a relationship with them. Stay top of mind and lots of other fun things we will learn about.

If you think email marketing is dead compared to social media, well, A; they’re not mutually exclusive. You could do both. You could certainly do both. Think about how many times a day you check your email. Unless you are unbelievably disciplined, you are probably checking it 10 times a day. That’s just the nature of who we are as a culture now. Don’t discount email marketing and love it. All right, now we’ve the case for it. I believe in it. What do you do first? How do we start this conversation?

Lisa Oberst: Yeah, it’s all about the conversations. You want to start by thinking of who you’re talking to. As I said already, the first thing you want to do is having need capture in place. Before we even thinking about writing an email and sitting down to write content, you want to take a step back and think of who is your ideal customer. That’s the way we do it and I definitely recommend doing it, is having a picture of your ideal customer in your head to think of what is the offer that is going to get them so excited that they will not even think twice about giving you their email address. That is step one. That’s coming up with a great offer.

Kurt Elster: Before we’ve even come up with, we’ve even touched email marketing, really, we’re thinking about the lead magnet. I’d like to think of the lead magnet as like, all right before-

Lisa Oberst: Exactly.

Kurt Elster: The email marketing at that point, if you think of it is like human to human is dating, by that point you have gotten the digits, you’re now entering the beginning stages of dating here with this customer before even then, you need a good pick up line. That’s your lead magnet. The first thing you think about is your lead magnet, but that something that make sense that is valuable to the customer, right?

Lisa Oberst: Right, exactly. It’s going to vary. It’s going to vary a lot from one story to another. You mentioned Beardbrand for example. In Beardbrand’s case we are giving away information. It’s all education-based and it is working extremely well, but we were able to 4x; their lead capture rate by just giving away 10 tips on how to grow a beard.

Kurt Elster: Is it like PDF or an email course?

Lisa Oberst: It’s an email. It actually just one email. Yeah, it’s one email with 10 tips and then it’s beginning of a Beardbrand bootcamp.

Kurt Elster: Okay.

Lisa Oberst: Sorry, go ahead.

Kurt Elster: No, so I love this idea. This is like the first chapter of my book Ecommerce Bootcamp we talk about … You could get the free sample for free if you guys want it, ecommerce-bootcamp.com. We talk about sales through education or for lack of a better term "saducation". That’s actually what you just described. You’re not giving away a coupon. You’re not giving away free product or sample. You’re just flat out providing people. You’re giving away value by educating them.

Lisa Oberst: Exactly. In some cases, giving away a discount, giving away a product is going to be the most relevant offer. In others, it isn’t. It’s all about thinking the person that you’re starting the conversation with. In Beardbrand’s case, we’re talking to customers who are obsessed with their beard; they want to learn everything about it. It makes sense to grab them with this education-based marketing. We do that and then we feed them into a welcome sequence. This welcome sequence is the continuation of the conversation. We’re gradually taking the new visitor through a journey of learning about their beard. We’re telling them everything they’re wondering about their beard already.

At the same time, we’re taking this so little opportunity to tell them about Beardbrand products, because, well, how to take good care of your beard, you might want to check this out as well. We’re not making it all about the product. We’re making it about value, about what the customer is interested in, does that make sense?

Kurt Elster: No. Absolutely. Yeah. No one wants to be sold too. I don’t want to listen to a sales pitch. I don’t want to hear about your time share. I want value. I want you to give me a better life. As a man with a moderate/mild beard, if you give me some tips on, "What do I do with this thing so it doesn’t like scraggly and gross?" Honest to god, it’s a thing you have to learn. I found it like I did not figure out how to properly shape and shave my beard until this year when I saw a video from another beard Shopify store BEARD KING, sells a different product.

Yeah, honest to god, it sounds silly, but when you think about it, now I learned that. Now almost every time I trim my beard I think about that piece of content and I think about BEARD KING. This connection has been made where I can’t help but think about this Shopify store and their product every Sunday when I’m trimming my beard in the mirror. You’re doing the same thing.

Lisa Oberst: Exactly. We’re also training customers to expect high value from these emails. They’re going to start loving to open these emails, because they just know that it’s going to be full of exactly what they want to learn about. The beauty about this journey, this welcome sequence bootcamp is that we’re gradually taking them to a point where they’re going to be dying to buy from Beardbrand.

Kurt Elster: I like it.

Lisa Oberst: If they haven’t bought by the end of … it’s a five-day bootcamp, and they haven’t bought by the end, well, we’re actually telling them, "Here’s a free gift, because you deserve it. You have made it through the bootcamp. Get this gift to become part of the club officially." Yeah, there’s all the psychology that goes into it, but we’re honestly using a elements of scarcity. We’re using customer reviews. Social-

Kurt Elster: Social.

Lisa Oberst: Exactly, social proof. All of that, packaged in a way that looks like it’s all about the customer.

Kurt Elster: Right, so as long as you’re providing them more value than you’re asking for, it no longer feels sleazy. It doesn’t feel like a sales pitch. You could still slide in those elements that act as psychological triggers to sales like scarcity, urgency and social proof. You don’t have to feel guilty about it. Ultimately, if you believe in your product, you shouldn’t feel guilty about trying to sell it to people. I’ve seen that.

If you’re confident and if you believe in it, it’s probably your duty to educate people about why they may want your product in their life. Okay, so some knee grade, basic tips here. How do I come up with a lead magnet idea? Implementing a lead magnet, not terribly tough technically, the hardest part is coming up with the idea. Do you have someone like go-to formats, ideas or methods for brainstorming these things?

Lisa Oberst: Yes, there are three typical ways to go, either education-based or discount-based or product offered. Before even thinking about that, what I typically do is, again, I take a step back and I think of who I am speaking to. What is going to be the key offer that’s going to get them to take? For example, I have another client where they were offering 10% off. Their audience are gamers. They sell custom gaming accessories. Their offer was 10% off. We switched that over to giving away a card, a token that is worth $1 in the store that probably cost about 10¢ to make, just about 10x to your capture rate.

Exactly, much, much higher dollar value with the 10% off, but so much more exciting to think of the token. I like to go as much as possible to think of something tangible. Think of something in your store that’s tangible either education or a product. Imagine, your customer see that and using it. Is that going to be exciting to them? That’s really where I’d like to start when coming up with these offers.

Kurt Elster: I like it.

Lisa Oberst: The more tangible the better, typically. Again, if I have another client who is medical supply company and in their case 10% off was right on. You have to think of your audience. You have to think of what, where they’re coming from.

Kurt Elster: Even if you’re like I really don’t know. Also if you go, "I really don’t know what they want." Just experiment, it is not hard to change these things and switch them up and try them.

Lisa Oberst: Exactly.

Kurt Elster: Yeah, okay. Offering, probably like the most basic, the go-to. You don’t have to think about it too hard. It’s just, "Hey, here’s a 10% off coupon for signing up, right? That one’s easy.

Lisa Oberst: Exactly, yeah.

Kurt Elster: You don’t even need marketing automation to do that one. You stick the coupon code in your welcome email or whatever it is regardless of platform. There you go. It’s like these are all tips that work independently with Klaviyo. You can do them on Klaviyo, I wish you would, but you don’t have to. What else? My gosh, I lost my train of thought. Yeah, I’m talking about the different lead magnets that work. Yeah, then from there, you know you could combine that with education. You could follow up with email course. I love email courses just because you’re in their inbox everyday for a week or like in your case the Beardbrand bootcamp, which is a nice alliteration to it. It helps keep you top of mind. It gets you in the earn box every week.

I love what you said, "Hey, you train them to expect value." That’s how you keep those open rates up. As long as that first email delivers on the promise of the lead magnet and it better deliver on the promise of that opt-in form and then some. Then people go, “Okay, these are providing me value.” They’re going to see them and they’re going to be willing to keep opening them and that’s what’s going to help keep open rates up naturally with great tip. Then the other one, format we have recently seen work well is a regular giveaway, because like a monthly or weekly giveaway. We did it on Jay Leno’s Store, lenosgarage.com. That one worked pretty well. We haven’t tried anything else. There’s no comparison.

All right, so my next question on these lead magnets. We haven’t even got in the marketing automation.

Lisa Oberst: I know.

Kurt Elster: Mostly, we’re just talking about the opt-in form lead magnet and what you give them. Okay. We’ll move on, one last question, how should I set up the opt-in form? I’ve seen them in the footer, I’ve seen them as exit-intent, as popup. At Leno store, we do it as a promo bar and a landing page. There’s at least five different ways I could format a lead magnet. You can even do Facebook lead ads. What’s the right way or is it all of them. What do I do?

Lisa Oberst: Well, the same answer that goes for all of this. There is no one right way.

Kurt Elster: Right, it depends, is the right answer.

Lisa Oberst: It depends, right. For most cases, we like to go with an exit-intent popup. They’re great because they don’t interrupt the flow of your customer. If someone comes to your store, they intend to buy … you really do not want to be throwing a popup in their face. First of all, it’s disrespectful. They are here. They’re trying to get something done. Second of all, you’re giving away margin. If you’re giving away a discount and someone comes to your store with the intention to buy, you do not need to be sending them this discount code. That’s why, I definitely lean on the side of exit-intent popups. Now in Beardbrand’s case, we don’t do that. Instead, we want to go even less aggressive and have a hello bar-type banner at the top.

It depends. Beardbrand has a very specific way of communicating. If they did not want to do a popup, fine, a banner works fine as well. The conversion rates are similar. It’s going to depend on how aggressive you want to go. If you want to go all out, then you could go for a Mat, a type of Sumo Mat.

Kurt Elster: I hate those things.

Lisa Oberst: Yeah, my problem with those is that they tend to trigger every single time you go to the store. They don’t give you time to breathe. I wouldn’t necessarily recommend it, but it does work wonders in some cases.

Kurt Elster: I agree with you. I love the exit-intent. It’s the safe, polite way to do it. Then if someone who’s on the site to shop, you will never going to see your exit-intent popup form. If they’re there, they browsed and then they’re leaving. Okay, as a safety net, we have our last stage. Hey, let me give you something for free, please. All you’re going to do is give me your email address, which is way harder than it sounds. People don’t want to give up their email address, I don’t blame them. You need to be finding something of value.

Lisa Oberst: Okay. Exactly.

Kurt Elster: Go ahead.

Lisa Oberst: What’s crazy with those exit-intent is that they’re capturing customers who are leaving the store. We’re still able with the welcome sequence to convert them at about eight to 10%, so that is huge.

Kurt Elster: Yeah, you’re right. In theory, you’re capturing the least engaged segment of the audience and still converting one out of 10 of them which is just awesome. Okay, then my last question on exit-intent popups. The work on desktop, what do you do on mobile? There’s no mouse. The exit-intent popup is just watching for the mouse to go toward the tab, right?

Lisa Oberst: Exactly.

Kurt Elster: Mobile, their touch devices, there’s no-

Lisa Oberst: It doesn’t work. Yeah, so that’s a problem. The way we go around it is we trigger the popup with scrolling. One way of knowing that someone is exiting the page on mobile is that they’re scrolling quickly towards the top and so that’s one way of knowing that they’re leaving. Another alternative is just to turn it into a timed popup.

Kurt Elster: Okay.

Lisa Oberst: Depending on the audience.

Kurt Elster: Yeah, I typically done it as … I use OptiMonk and you can use OptiMonk just you know, whatever to do your popup forms or if you’re fancy and you have a front-end developer, there’s a free open source JavaScript called ouibounce, O-U-I bounce that I like.

Lisa Oberst: Yeah.

Kurt Elster: Yeah, mobile I was just doing the timer. I did not know about the scrolling trick that’s very clever. I have to explore that more.

Lisa Oberst: Yes and we build our own custom popups just so we have all that flexibility. One last tip about popups, this is, again, something that we’re able to do because we build them in-house, but I love building the popup in a three-step manner. This all comes back to value, value, value first. On our popups, we don’t even show you the email field on the first screen. It’s only a question.

For example, when we’re giving away those token cards, the first screen that’s going to show up is which one of these two token cards would you like for free? There’s nothing indicating that you’re going to have to do anything. It’s all value. Then once the reader has made that micro-commitment of picking one of the two cards the chances of them going forward with giving away their email address are increased. This is a psychologic triggers that we use in this set up.

Kurt Elster: I love it.

Lisa Oberst: Another little tip there.

Kurt Elster: Yeah, it is rather than ask for, "Hey, buy my stuff, give me your credit card details." That’s a huge ask. You go with a series of micro-commitments that helps you build that relationship and build trust. The simplest one is, “Hey, did you want this free thing?” “Okay, yeah, the answer is yes, I do.”

Lisa Oberst: Okay.

Kurt Elster: You step them through it.

Lisa Oberst: Once they said that, then they’re going to focus all through.

Kurt Elster: Can you share with us the store that uses the coin thing, this three-step process?

Lisa Oberst: Sure, instagaming.

Kurt Elster: Got it.

Lisa Oberst: We actually also use that on Beardbrand.

Kurt Elster: Okay, cool. I’m going to include all of these in the show notes, so people could check it out. I’m sorry if your opt-in rates go up and your conversion rates go down.

Lisa Oberst: Conversions.

Kurt Elster: Sorry.

Lisa Oberst: At least, we’re aware.

Kurt Elster: If you check these out, please go, just by something small so she has something to do with that.

Lisa Oberst: Yeah, I was going to say it. These products are amazing. You’re going to love them.

Kurt Elster: Yeah. Okay. In this sense, you’ve got into one of the early, one of the nice tenets about email marketing automation. You’re only showing the sequence to a particular kind person. You’re not just blasting the same message to everyone all the time. This is segmentation. Talk to me about segmentation?

Lisa Oberst: Yes, the basic segmentation that you must put in place is what we just talked about with welcome sequence. This is someone who comes to your store. If they’re not buying, you put them to through this welcome sequence. Then on top of that, abandon carts, so this is someone who went as far as putting a product in their cart, but didn’t buy, so that’s another sequence. Then on top of that is the post-purchase sequence. Those are really the core foundation of automation; post-purchase, abandon car, welcome sequences.

Kurt Elster: All right. Go ahead.

Lisa Oberst: Go for it. No, go for it.

Kurt Elster: All right, so I love the … the welcome sequence is clever and each segment, each sequence has a goal. The sequence is to take these very fairly cold prospects and turn them into customers through a longer effort in high touch engagement process that’s fully automated, which is very cool. That’s our first one. That’s with our exit-intent popup. Cart abandonment, they added the cart and left the store so now we’re going to follow up with them. I have a format I follow that I like, what is yours? I will share you mine, if you show me yours.

Lisa Oberst: Okay, well, mine is typically built with four emails. I like to go with four emails to present about across five, six days, it depends. First, goes out two hours an abandoned cart you want to hit. The idea is not to be creepy and not to be too intrusive, but to still potential hit them with an email before they’ve left their computer.

Kurt Elster: Strike while the iron is hot.

Lisa Oberst: Exactly. This email is always, always customer support-centered. It’s just being helpful, because most of these customers who place an item in their cart, then abandoned necessarily because they didn’t want to buy. They abandoned maybe because they got distracted and maybe, I don’t know, someone got home and they just forgot that they were in the middle of placing an order. The idea of this first email is just to remind them, also, at the same time, you’re reminding them, but you’re also discovering if they had an issue, if they had a question. You can discover some really interesting information about your cart by just asking the customer if, maybe, they weren’t able to put their order through. That’s signal number one.

Kurt Elster: Right.

Lisa Oberst: It gets a lot of answers, a lot of customers think that someone sat down and wrote that email specifically for them and they really appreciate it.

Kurt Elster: This sounds like the first email will be very plain texted.

Lisa Oberst: Yeah, it is, a 100%.

Kurt Elster: Okay. It’s interesting that we separately discovered and came about the same approach. What I was doing was after four hours. Pretty similar, then I thought strike while the iron is hot, I would send them an email even if this was just basic Shopify cart abandonment an email or they only send one or it fits in something fancier like Klaviyo or Conversio. I would send them off an email. Its plain texted and says, "Hey, I’m the owner of whatever, and I saw you abandon your cart. I just want to make sure you didn’t have any issues or if you have any questions just hit reply and let me know how I can help."

It was just a way to find did they have a customer service issue, can we be proactive, can we find objections? Ultimately, most of the time, they got distracted, they forgot or they just said, "Yeah, not quite comfortable yet." Getting that personal touch email where it’s proactive on customer service that’s very positive. That’s going to help increase trust. Okay, cool. We came up with the same thing separately. I like it.

Lisa Oberst: Yeah. One little thing I like to do with that email is it’s plain text, but I like to add a head shot in the signature just to give it even more of an element of real human interaction.

Kurt Elster: That’s a good idea. I like it. Next?

Lisa Oberst: Number two. Number two, definitely, you want to show the cart content. At that point, a primary goes out about a day later. You want to show the content to get them out and excited about the products they were looking at. Sometimes, you can include a discount already in that second email. I try to keep it for the third, fourth. It depends on the brand. It depends on how much they want to send out discount codes or not, but that’s an option.

Kurt Elster: I like it. Okay. Yeah, typically, my second one I just go, "Good things come to those who wait, here’s 10% off your purchase and here’s your cart." Something like that after 24 hours.

Lisa Oberst: Yeah, yes. The next one can go out after 48 and then that’s when you want to really start pushing, putting some discount code in. They definitely have an element of scarcity in saying, "Well, wait, we can’t keep these items forever, maybe make it fun." Definitely, for example, in gaining, they have a lot of fun on their store that we can reuse, so we do that, which is make it entertaining. I find that making emails fun, entertaining, definitely have higher return.

Kurt Elster: Yeah. Why not make it fun. Everything doesn’t have to be super professional and serious. A great example of this that I always point to, super successful Shopify store Violent Little Machine Shop, violentlittle.com. All of their descriptions are like its all gallows humor. They’re swearing same with their emails. It talks about like writing them drunk. The store does phenomenally well. It’s just such a great business because their audience likes that. It’s authentic and engaging and it’s rough and tumble and it works for them. Be fun, be yourself. I think have an authentic voice.

Lisa Oberst: Yeah.

Kurt Elster: That helps a lot.

Lisa Oberst: Yeah, if you can afford to be fun, maybe you can say someone is going to run off with your cart content or just come up with some entertaining way, excuses for being in their inbox.

Kurt Elster: All right, the third segmentation then is the post-purchase sale. We finally, we went through these two.

Lisa Oberst: Yes.

Kurt Elster: In theory, people who’ve gotten these two email sequences. They’ve got them to purchase, they’ve got a lot of emails, they’re really building a relationship here, but the really successful stores don’t just stop there.

Lisa Oberst: Nope.

Kurt Elster: At this point, we have optimized the top of our funnel, we validate our business, but how do we extend customer lifetime value both ways and I’m sure you have ideas?

Lisa Oberst: Yes, there’s so much that you can do with post-purchase email. One first tip I want to point out, especially for Shopify Plus stores. It’s sending your order confirmation through Klaviyo. This just heads up, it isn’t just the one click setup. It’s a little complicated because you have to deal with Klaviyo’s tags and put the email together. It enables you to include a product feed. The product feed is huge. It’s going to show the specific products that a customer has highest chance of it wanting. I like to do the order confirmation, because order confirmation emails have the highest open rates. They have about 70% open rate on average.

If you can show more products in that email, I typically, actually for Beardbrand the order confirmation email is converting at .8%, .9%, that’s sending to every single customer. It’s a little bit counterintuitive, but customers are super excited after making an order and it’s a really good time to be actually showing them more products.

Kurt Elster: I have loved this feature in Conversio which was normally called Receiptful. That’s like how they started, was just this one single idea in automation. Just, hey, show them upsell products in the email receipt. I had no idea you could make this work in Klaviyo. I am so excited.

Lisa Oberst: I saw them. Yes. No. As I said, it is not a one click setup, but it will figure it out.

Kurt Elster: I hope someone from Klaviyo is listening to this. This needs to be added in one of like the defaults of just inflows. My gosh, that’s fantastic.

Lisa Oberst: I will send them an email.

Kurt Elster: Please do. One of the issues you run into here, when you do this one is there’s no way to turn off the order confirmation email from Shopify itself. You got to replace it with something, what do you stick in there?

Lisa Oberst: No, you can with Shopify Plus.

Kurt Elster: Okay.

Lisa Oberst: You just have to reach out to them.

Kurt Elster: Very good.

Lisa Oberst: Yeah, it’s a little sneaky.

Kurt Elster: Instead of Shopify, what we typically do is make that one just like a personal plain text thank you from the owners. It’s like, "Hey, you placed for an order, thank you for your purchase. Your receipt’s on its way in the second email is the way around it.

Lisa Oberst: Yeah, that’s perfect.

Kurt Elster: Cool.

Lisa Oberst: That’s perfect. After that, definitely, you want to send a thank you email and those, you might be surprised again, but those convert at the same rate about as the order confirmation email. Include another product feed, why not?

Kurt Elster: I love the product feed, just tell me what that is in Klaviyo, they’ve got this drag and drop editor, it’s very cool. You could drag product feed in and it gives you latest products, newest products, but most likely to buy. Something of that effect give you a couple of different feeds or you can make different feeds.

Lisa Oberst: Make them, yeah.

Kurt Elster: Yeah. The one you want is the one that people chose them products they’re most likely to buy because it’s got a JavaScript widget in your theme so it could track what people actually looked at. I always suspected what it’s showing them. The intersection of bestsellers and products they looked at but didn’t buy.

Lisa Oberst: The way it works, if you set it up with the waiting. The way it works is it looks like what products the customer bought. If they bought A and B products and another customer ended up, pass about A and B and C, they’re going show them C.

Kurt Elster: Okay, so it’s based on historical purchase data from other customers?

Lisa Oberst: Exactly.

Kurt Elster: Very clever, it’s personalized recommendations. You don’t have to do anything. It does it automatically, dynamically, super cool.

Lisa Oberst: That’s a main great feature. Thank you emails, big ones too. Now something that we do for Beardbrand, for example is for every single product in the store, we have a special, we have a particular email that goes out. Let’s say someone buys beard oil. We’re going to send them a post-purchase email that teaches them exactly how to use their beard oil. If they bought a balm, we’re going to send them an email that shows them how to use their balm. That’s taking it to another level.

Kurt Elster: What you’re doing, it’s very clever. You’re going to ensure, you’re going to help keep the excited, because I’m assuming they get this between the time they purchased and before they get the product, right?

Lisa Oberst: Yes.

Kurt Elster: Okay. It shows up. It helps keep that excitement going, but you’re also going to preempt like you already know what customers objections are, issues. It’s going to preempt those things and really radically increase customer satisfaction, because when that product shows up, they already know, "Hey, this is how I apply beard oil." The first time I bought beard oil, it showed up and it occurred to me, “Wait a second, I don’t know how you actually apply this or how much.”

Lisa Oberst: What do I do with this?

Kurt Elster: I had to go find a video that explained it.

Lisa Oberst: Yeah, exactly. If you know that your customers are going to be wondering, "Okay, well, what do I do with this when I receive it?" Send them the email with instructions. Very, very helpful. It helps establish that relationship to another level again, just increasing customer lifetime value, letting them know that you care enough to send them all that information.

Kurt Elster: That one, that’s huge. It may not seem obvious as to like, "This is going to sell them something. No, it doesn’t need to; this is an investment in that relationship." You’re going to have happier customers, you’re going to have less customer support request and it’s going to them more likely to buy and recommend your products.

Lisa Oberst: Exactly. It’s an excuse just to be in their inbox.

Kurt Elster: Right.

Lisa Oberst: Again, it’s an excuse. Well, before sending them another sales email, you’re sending them a lot of value. Next time they get an email they’re going to open it again expecting value.

Kurt Elster: What do I do? All right, we have now set them up where we know they’re going to open up that next email. What is the next email?

Lisa Oberst: That’s when you want to study a bit of your customer lifetime value. You want to know; what is the typical journey of one of your customers, do they buy a second time after one month, after three months, what’s normal? Let’s take Beardbrand as an example; typically, a great customer will buy maybe every month. What we want to do after a month after their first order, we want us to be in their inbox. We want to show them, okay, well, you’re probably running out of the product so here you can click this one click button and add the product again to your cart. That’s one thing that we do.

Kurt Elster: Swell.

Lisa Oberst: It takes a little bit of coding, but it’s possible to set this up so that you show them their past order. You have a "add to cart" button right next to the product so that all they have to do is click that button and refill.

Kurt Elster: Very good. There’s another way to do it, I forgot what it’s called, but you could build a link that when clicked on sends everyone to the checkout process with a particular item or items already in their cart. This is a clever idea you have. In their case, they have a consumable good. We know they use it. It maybe takes 30 days to use it up since it’s a consumable. Then you follow up with them, "Hey, are you running low, don’t run out, order now, order again. Here you go." Just make it so branded easy, remove all the friction for them. It’s clever. What else can we do?

Lisa Oberst: What we do in some cases if they didn’t buy after one month? Well, shoot them another email after three months. Maybe that they hadn’t run out yet, maybe they just needed a bit more time before buying again. Send them another different email basically saying that same idea a little bit later. Then if they really haven’t purchased in a while, you want to win them back. To do that, you can get creative, send win-back emails that, I don’t know, a bit of emotion, be clever, be fun and give them a reason to come back. Maybe a discount, maybe a free product, those work pretty well in win-back emails.

Kurt Elster: Let’s say after, for most brands, it’s going to be somewhere in between 50 and 80 days or if they don’t make another purchase, we can really think of them as lost customer. They’re a one time purchase, now they’re gone. Maybe they’ll be back, but maybe not. What we could do is send these win-back emails, where we try before they turn out, before they totally forget about us. Great, make another purchase, come back, we love you, that kind of thing. All right.

Lisa Oberst: Exactly.

Kurt Elster: All of those things. Those are three workflows or three colors for email marketing automation. Really tremendous, you’ve absolutely opened the kimono on this stuff. As someone who lives, eats, breathes Klaviyo, do have any Klaviyo pro-tips for working with the platform?

Lisa Oberst: Actually, you’ve mentioned some of them already. Definitely using the product feed, I know you love it. I love it, it’s amazing. Some other tips, so you definitely can setup. It takes a little bit of coding, but there’s a way of setting it up your store, so that a customer who clicks through from your Klaviyo email has his discount code applied automatically to the store.

Kurt Elster: I didn’t know that.

Lisa Oberst: Again, that does take a little bit of coding, but with Shopify Plus, Shopify also, that’s possible. That really makes for a smooth process. Another thing that’s possible by tweaking the Shopify Plus cart a little bit is trading a discount code that will automatically add the free gift to the cart.

Kurt Elster: That one for just Shopify Plus only, right?

Lisa Oberst: That is Shopify Plus only, yes.

Kurt Elster: Yeah, we did that. Well, there’s an app that will do it called like Secomapp Free Gifts, but it’s not the same. It’s not quite the same as the smooth frictionless version that you can get with a little bit of JavaScript plus Shopify scripts.

Lisa Oberst: Yeah, exactly. Actually, big news, Klaviyo just announced that Shopify stores will be able to have custom coupons sent out through Klaviyo as of now, so that’s really exciting.

Kurt Elster: Yes.

Lisa Oberst: It used to be only for Shopify Plus.

Kurt Elster: Yeah, so what it would do is Klaviyo in Shopify Plus only could dynamically generate coupon codes. When you sense somewhat like, you get the abandoned cart email go say, "You get 10% off, order now!" Then the next you go, “It’s going to expire.” Well, really like you were lying essentially, because everyone got the same coupon code.

Lisa Oberst: Yeah.

Kurt Elster: Even if you limit to them with one email and then those end up on coupon code sites. It was like the good outweigh the bad, but it wasn’t perfect. Versus now, if you are in Shopify Plus, Klaviyo could dynamically generate a one time use coupon code for each individual person, which was very cool. It worked well, I liked it. Now, as of yesterday, well, as of May 16th, we see that that works on all Shopify stores even Klaviyo, very cool. Last question, we’re running-

Lisa Oberst: Go for it.

Kurt Elster: When you’ve gone long, because this has been tremendously valuable. Last question, what’s your favorite part about what you do?

Lisa Oberst: You might have noticed I have a bit of an accent. That’s because I’m French, I’m American, I grew up in Belgium. I’ve traveled a lot. I have a lot of different experiences to pull from whenever I start working for a new client. I love that aspect of the job. I love diving into these new personalities that I have to embody to be able to rewrite the best copy for each client.

One thing, I didn’t mention, but every single time I write for one customer, I have someone that I think about. For example, the in gaming sales, game accessories, I’m not a gamer, but I do have friends who are and every time I sit down to write, I start the email, "Hello, Jeremy." I really, really dive into that personality. I think that that’s amazing. I get to learn a ton. I have learned so much about growing a beard. I really wish I could grow a beard right now.

Kurt Elster: I love that idea. Yeah, when I was trying to unlearn like the awful academic business pros that have beaten into me in school, I had to unlearn that stuff write natural sounding, authentic sounding emails. One of the early tricks that helped was picturing the one person that you’re answering. Writing to a single individual and that’s going to help you kind of do some code changing, some code switching and writing their email. I love that you’re actually titling it when you right the first draft, of course is like, hey, and that person’s name. That’s going to help you keep you on track as opposed to writing those gross emails that are like, "hello newsletter." You keep in touch one-on-one.

Lisa Oberst: Hello world. Exactly. Yeah.

Kurt Elster: Very good. Lisa, where can people go to learn more about you?

Lisa Oberst: They can go to fuelmade.com and we’ve actually put together a free checklist, email checklist that you can access at fuelmade.com/usp for unofficial Shopify podcast. This checklist, it gives a lot of tips on how to think through every aspect of your emails before sending them out. Lots of best practices and it’s just a great way to make sure that you don’t forget a key element of the email before sending it. Great value, definitely go get it. It’s at fuelmade.com/usp.

Kurt Elster: I will include the link to fuelmade.com/usp. Download the checklist; I’m sure it is greatly valuable. You’re talking to a Klaviyo pro here. What was going to say? Lisa, thank you so much for doing this. I greatly appreciate it.

Lisa Oberst: Thank you, Kurt. This was great.

Kurt Elster: I have learned a lot. To our listeners, thanks for your time and attention, your wonderful reviews on iTunes, your kind words et cetera. However, you found this, find out more about it and get those show notes at unofficialshopifypodcast.com. If you don’t want to miss another episode, you want to be notified, sign up for my newsletter, kurtelster.com. Shoot you an email whenever we post a new episode. Of course, if you like to work with me in your next project, you can apply at ethercycle.com. Thanks everybody and we’ll be back next week.