Joy Vetterlein joins me at the top of the episode to discuss the latest round of allegations against Michael Tait, and our evolving reactions and perspectives through this ongoing story.

After that update, David Zahl joins me to discuss his new book The Big Relief and his take on grace as Christianity's most radical contribution to the world. We dig into the Lutheran distinction between law and grace, connecting it to Carl Rogers' unconditional positive regard and examining how contemporary culture often delivers moral instruction without the container of acceptance that makes change possible. Dave argues that whether it's progressive activism or conservative piety, we're often just "shouting at people to change and then resenting them when they don't," while true transformation happens when people feel safe enough to be vulnerable.

We explore evidence for divine grace through romantic love, recovery programs, and those surprising moments when someone sees us at our worst and chooses to stay. We also get beautifully sidetracked by our mutual obsession with Brian Wilson and the Beach Boys as examples of pure gift.

In the end, we're all just looking to be accepted exactly as we are.

www.christchurchcville.org/david-zahl

Highlights

35:58 The Role of Therapy in Grace

44:47 The Absence of Grace in Socio-Political Discourse

51:49 The Concept of Divine Acceptance

1:05:57 The Burden of Performance and Conditionality

1:10:47 Experiencing Belonging and Grace

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