The world can feel hopelessly polarised at times, especially on topics such as racism and criminal justice. If your spirits need lifting, and if you need reassurance that respectful dialogue is possible, even if people disagree with each other, then this episode is for you.

Abimbola Johnson, a barrister at London's Doughty Street Chambers, speaks with host Yasmin Sheikh about her work as chair of the Independent Scrutiny and Oversight Board, which addresses racism in policing. They discuss the importance of having challenging conversations in ways that maintain respect for differing viewpoints and Abimbola's hopes for the legacy of the Board's Police Race Action Plan (https://www.npcc.police.uk/our-work/police-race-action-plan/) as it enters its final year.