Ethereum has been left behind in this bull market. As rivals like Solana gain ground in metrics such as speed, cost, and developer mindshare, questions are being raised about whether Ethereum’s reliance on Layer 2 solutions is the right path forward—or if it needs a more fundamental redesign.

In this episode, Martin Köppelmann, co-founder of Gnosis, and Justin Drake, researcher at the Ethereum Foundation, discuss the trade-offs of native and based rollups, execution capacity, and Ethereum’s ability to maintain its dominance. They debate how Ethereum should address fragmentation across rollups, whether ETH has strayed from its ultrasound money narrative, and whether its deliberate pace of innovation could make it vulnerable in an increasingly competitive landscape.

Whose ideas will lead Ethereum out of this dark forest?

Show highlights:

03:10 Why Justin is so optimistic about pre confirmations and Ethereum scaling its throughput
06:15 Whether Ethereum could reach “maintenance mode” within 5 years
08:20 Whether Ethereum can solve the problem of fragmentation
20:21 The difference between based rollups and native rollups
25:29 Why Martin believes that Ethereum is not building for developers
34:21 What real-time proving is and why it is relevant
37:46 How programmable native rollups could have different business models from Ethereum but the same security
44:51 Why most assets on L2s might not actually be secured by Ethereum
50:24 Whether Ethereum’s consensus layer might see a “clean slate” redesign with the Beam Chain
58:59 Whether Ethereum’s slow pace of change could leave it vulnerable to competition
01:06:55 How Ethereum's shift to rollups and blob data has reshaped its ultrasound money narrative by transforming the primary sources of fee burn

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Guests:

Martin Köppelmann, Co-founder and CEO of Gnosis
Previous appearances on Unchained:
Are Layer 2s Failing Ethereum? A New Proposal Advocates for Native L2s
Given the Sanctions on Tornado Cash, Is Ethereum Censorship Resistant?
Justin Drake, Researcher at the Ethereum Foundation
Previous appearances on Unchained:
Why MEV Will Always Be Controversial
Did the Merge Make Ethereum ‘the Most Secure Blockchain in the World’?
Can Bitcoin Be Secured Only by Transaction Fees? Two Researchers Sound Off
Is ETH on Its Way to Becoming Ultra-Sound Money? Yes, Says Justin Drake

Links

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