24: Linus Lee - Engineering for Aliveness

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Aug 4, 2025

Linus Lee, a builder and engineer at Thrive Capital, delves into the intersection of technology and humanity. He discusses how software can enhance individual agency and the need for equitable access. A fascinating breakdown of instrumental versus engaged interfaces reveals the importance of design in user experience. Lee advocates for tools that foster creativity over mere mechanization, while also exploring the evolving nature of AI. His insights challenge us to consider whether technology will lead us to a more human or a less human future.

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INSIGHT

Technology Amplifies Agency Unequally

Technology amplifies personal agency but tends to concentrate power by default.
Intentional design can distribute agency more equitably and empower individuals broadly.

INSIGHT

Instrumental vs Engaged Tools

Instrumental tools deliver results quickly and cheaply by understanding user intent.
Engaged tools reveal complexity and enable deep mastery through user interaction and practice.

ADVICE

Beware Overuse of Agents

Agents are trending as the perfect instrumental interface but risk reducing user agency.
Beware solving complex problems by removing user engagement with complexity.

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Linus Lee (⁠⁠Website⁠⁠, ⁠⁠X⁠⁠) is a builder, engineer, and writer who explores how software can amplify our abilities, humanity, and agency. He builds, researches, and advises on AI at ⁠⁠Thrive Capital⁠⁠, a venture capital firm, and continues to write and hack on personal projects.

Previously, Linus held research or engineering roles at ⁠⁠Notion⁠⁠, ⁠⁠Betaworks⁠⁠, ⁠⁠Replit⁠⁠, and others, and has built over 100 personal ⁠⁠projects⁠⁠ on the side--including his own programming language and ⁠⁠most of the tools he uses day to day⁠⁠. Most of his work, writing, and projects revolve around language, knowledge work, thinking tools, machine intelligence, and latent space for creativity.

We begin with how technology can concentrate or distribute power and amplify our diminish our agency. Then he breaks down his framework around instrumental and engaged interfaces, why representation is so critical in tools, and talks through what 'tools for thought' actually means. We also discuss the state of LLM tools and how they can become more robust, as well as how latent space could be codified to help us understand more qualitative domains. This bleeds into his approach to and work at Thrive, which we discuss in detail.

Linus is attuned to the ways technology can make us more or less human, and that's reflected throughout. Technology is not determined: the future we imagine and create is entirely up to us. Will we optimize ourselves into something non-human, or dream our way into something beautiful?

Views expressed here are the interviewee's and not intended as investment advice.

Full transcript and all links are available at ⁠⁠https://dialectic.fm/linus-lee⁠⁠

Timestamps:

(2:23): Values and Technology as an Amplifier for Agency
(9:57): Instrumental vs. Engaged Interfaces and Tools
(20:05): Representations, Abstraction, and Exposing Complexity
(33:23): Dreaming of Thinking Tools, Especially Beyond Text
(48:06): LLMs, Mechanical Thinking, and Going Beyond in How We Understand
(57:42): Embeddings of People
(1:01:16): Applying Rigor and an Engineering Approach to Working with LLMs
(1:08:26): Collaborating with AI: Having Agents Work for You vs. Accelerating Your Craft
(1:11:10): Using LLMs to Explore Latent Space
(1:14:58): Working at Thrive: building internal tools and taking software seriously at a VC firm
(1:28:09): What Great Engineering in an Organization Looks Like
(1:33:50): Humanity, Aliveness, and Technology
(1:39:41): Dreams, Aesthetics, Imagery, and Intentionally Guiding Technology
(1:46:09): Lost to Wonder

References