Interpretability and the AI "Clear Box" with Surya Ganguli
Oct 10, 2023
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Surya Ganguli, a neural dynamics researcher at Stanford University, joins Vijay Pande to discuss interpretability in AI, and the potential for AI to become a 'clear box'. They explore the future of AI-augmented humans and the importance of understanding AI systems. They also touch on the cost of training AI models, meta learning, regulatory frameworks, and the need for interdisciplinary collaboration.
Interpretability is crucial for understanding the patterns and principles of AI systems.
Human creativity may still hold value due to its authentic and emotional qualities that AI-generated content may not replicate.
Academia and a rational approach are essential for advancing the science of AI and maintaining trust in its development.
Deep dives
Understanding AI Black Boxes
In this podcast episode, Surya Ganguly, a neurodynamics researcher, and Vijay Pandey discuss the concept of AI black boxes. They emphasize the need to understand the patterns that AI systems predict, even though we currently lack a mathematical description of those patterns. Ganguly compares the black box nature of AI systems to the complexity of brain circuits, stating that AI systems present an opportunity to understand the principles of intelligence. They also highlight the importance of interpretability as a means of reducing complex models and developing a conceptual understanding of how they work.
Future with AI Augmented Humans
The podcast delves into the potential future of AI augmented humans. Ganguly and Pandey ponder whether human creativity will still hold value in a world where AI can generate creative outputs. They draw parallels with the continuing market for handcrafted furniture, suggesting that human creativity may be cherished for its authentic and emotional qualities that AI-generated content may not replicate. They discuss how understanding the nature of AI models and the value humans bring to the table will be essential in this evolving dynamic.
The Role of Science and Trust in AI Development
The conversation shifts to the role of science and trust in the development and understanding of AI systems. Ganguly expresses his belief in the potential for a better understanding of AI models in the future, drawing inspiration from the power of science to explain complex phenomena. Both guests stress the importance of academia in advancing the science of AI and ensuring a rational and informed approach to its development. They also discuss the challenges of maintaining trust and rational debate in an era of deepfakes and increasing reliance on AI in decision-making.
The Future of Learning and Human Value
In contemplating the future, Ganguly and Pandey explore the potential impacts on learning and human value. They discuss the shift in the learning process with the existence of AI tools, questioning whether reliance on these tools may hinder critical thinking and problem-solving abilities. However, they also acknowledge that new skills and forms of value generation will likely emerge in response to the changing landscape. They emphasize the importance of recognizing and nurturing human creativity and the value it brings to society.
Regulating AI and Ensuring Understanding
The podcast concludes with a discussion on the need for regulatory frameworks and understanding of AI systems. Ganguly raises concerns about government capacity to regulate these systems without stifling innovation, highlighting the importance of standards and external audits. They also address the challenges of adversarial examples and the need to red team AI systems to uncover potential vulnerabilities and biases. The conversation emphasizes the importance of developing scientific understanding and confidence in AI systems to ensure their responsible development and deployment.
Note that due to technical difficulties, the audio quality of this episode may vary.
Surya Ganguli, PhD, an associate professor at Stanford University and a neural dynamics researcher, joins Vijay Pande of Bio + Health.
Together, Surya and Vijay chatted about the interpretability of AI and how the AI black box could someday become a "clear box." They also talk through a future of AI-augmented humans, and where humans might excel compared with AI.
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