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Lex Fridman Podcast
#293 – Donald Hoffman: Reality is an Illusion – How Evolution Hid the Truth
Jun 12, 2022
03:23:17
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Quick takeaways
- Human perception constructs our reality, which may not reflect objective truth.
- Physicists are exploring theories beyond space-time to understand the nature of reality.
- Scientific exploration and understanding bring advancements and practical applications.
- Exploring consciousness beyond space-time may provide insights into the perceived world.
- Conscious agents theory proposes conscious experiences as fundamental in creating space, time, and physical objects.
- The quest to understand reality requires curiosity, introspection, and open-mindedness in both scientific and spiritual realms.
Deep dives
Evolution of Natural Selection Challenges Perception of Reality
Donald Hoffman, cognitive scientist, questions the accuracy of human perception, stating that what we see is a construct of adaptive behavior rather than an accurate representation of reality. He explains that while our perceptions guide our behavior, they do not necessarily reflect objective truth. Hoffman argues that evolution by natural selection does not maximize for truth, but rather for survival and reproductive success. He suggests that our understanding of reality is limited by our perceptual interface and that we must go beyond space-time to uncover a deeper understanding of the nature of reality.
Space-Time as an Interface: Beyond Space-Time
Hoffman highlights the work of physicists who are exploring theories beyond space-time, challenging the concept's fundamental nature. These theories propose new mathematical structures like the amplitudehedron and cosmological polytopes that project into space-time and provide insights into symmetries beyond what can be observed in our current understanding. By letting go of the assumption of space-time as fundamental, scientists are searching for a deeper understanding of reality, one that may involve dynamics and transcends current conceptual frameworks.
Challenges of Understanding and Reductionism
Hoffman addresses the challenges of understanding reality and reductionism as a scientific approach. He emphasizes the limits of reductionism and the uncertainty of ever reaching a complete theory of everything. However, he notes that scientific exploration and understanding are crucial and that each new theory brings advancements and practical applications, enabling technological progress. While the pursuit of knowledge may be never-ending, it continues to provide valuable insights and new possibilities.
Implications for Neuroscience and Consciousness
Hoffman discusses the implications of these ideas for neuroscience and the study of consciousness. He suggests that an understanding of consciousness may require exploring beyond space-time and developing a theory in which the dynamics of consciousness give rise to the perceived world. He highlights the importance of interplay between conceptual understanding and introspection, allowing scientists to gain insights from both realms. Hoffman also touches on the spiritual notion of transcending conceptual thought to access deeper truths and how it aligns with the exploration of reality beyond space-time.
Consciousness as fundamental and building up space-time
In this podcast episode, the speaker discusses the idea of consciousness as fundamental and explores how it can potentially create space and time, as well as physical objects like brains. The main focus is on shifting the perspective of the hard problem of consciousness from explaining how consciousness emerges from physical processes to how conscious experiences can give rise to the physical world. The speaker proposes a theory of conscious agents, where conscious experiences are considered fundamental and probabilistic relationships between them can trigger other conscious experiences. The goal is to show how networks of conscious agents can create what we perceive as space, time, and physical objects.
Networks of conscious agents and the subjective nature of consciousness
The speaker emphasizes that conscious agents are mathematical entities and not related to the notion of self or agency. While consciousness without form is fundamental in this theory, the specific experiences and forms that consciousness takes are considered subjective and can vary infinitely. The speaker notes that networks of conscious agents can be computationally universal and that the theory allows for the possibility of non-computable interactions between conscious agents. However, the speaker acknowledges that their current theory is a 1.0 version and that further exploration and refinement will be necessary to potentially solve the hard problem of consciousness.
Consciousness beyond space-time and ongoing scientific debates
The speaker briefly mentions discussions with other researchers such as Anika Harris and Philip Goff. While some debate and caution are expressed about the language and concepts used to describe consciousness, the speaker finds that their ideas align closely with Anika Harris. However, the speaker acknowledges that the nature of consciousness and the ongoing search for a theory of everything will continue as an evolving endeavor, with advancements likely to come from future generations of scientists.
Predictions and limitations of the theory
In terms of predictions, the speaker suggests that the theory of conscious agents can potentially lead to groundbreaking technologies in the future. It may also open up new possibilities for understanding the nature of consciousness beyond our current understanding. However, the speaker believes that there may always be fundamental questions and aspects of consciousness that we cannot fully comprehend or solve, as they may lie beyond the limits of our current imagination and scientific understanding.
The ephemeral nature of reality
Reality is ephemeral, we create and perceive it in the present moment. The external world exists as a projection of consciousness, and every object and experience is temporary, appearing only when observed. This challenges our attachments to possessions and identities, urging us to question the importance we place on material things.
The self and the notion of being
Consciousness is fundamental, and our sense of self is not confined to our physical bodies. We are not separate from the universe, but rather interconnected with it. Love and compassion for others are rooted in the realization that we are all part of the same conscious being. Spiritual traditions, while diverse, often reflect similar insights about the ephemeral nature of reality and the magnitude of love and connection.
Contemplating the unknown
Embracing the unknown and acknowledging the limits of our understanding is crucial. The universe is far more complex and fascinating than we may expect, and our role within it is equally extraordinary. Curiosity, open-mindedness, and a willingness to challenge established beliefs are essential for personal and intellectual growth.
The pursuit of truth
Achieving a deep understanding of reality, both intellectually and emotionally, requires persistent introspection and a dedicated exploration of spiritual and scientific realms. While embracing the unknown can be challenging, it offers the opportunity to reshape our perspectives and make new discoveries. The journey to understand ourselves and the universe is ongoing, and each individual has the potential to contribute to the discovery of profound insights and new perspectives.
Donald Hoffman is a cognitive scientist at UC Irvine and author of The Case Against Reality. Please support this podcast by checking out our sponsors:
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EPISODE LINKS:
Donald’s Twitter: https://twitter.com/donalddhoffman
Donald’s Website: http://cogsci.uci.edu/~ddhoff/
Documents & Articles:
1. Could a Neuroscientist Understand a Microprocessor?: https://journals.plos.org/ploscompbiol/article?id=10.1371/journal.pcbi.1005268
2. Conscious Agent Networks: https://chrisfieldsresearch.com/CA-circuits-CSR-rev2.pdf
3. The Einstein-Podolsky-Rosen Argument in Quantum Theory: https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/qt-epr/
Books:
1. The Case Against Reality: https://amzn.to/3MhW4Wt
2. Vision: https://amzn.to/3Q4ibTm
PODCAST INFO:
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SUPPORT & CONNECT:
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OUTLINE:
Here’s the timestamps for the episode. On some podcast players you should be able to click the timestamp to jump to that time.
(00:00) – Introduction
(08:04) – Case against reality
(19:33) – Spacetime
(43:57) – Reductionism
(1:04:23) – Evolutionary game theory
(1:32:46) – Consciousness
(2:28:06) – Visualizing reality
(2:43:23) – Ephemerality of life
(2:51:48) – Simulation theory
(2:57:30) – Difficult ideas
(3:12:32) – Love
(3:16:07) – Advice for young people
(3:18:26) – Meaning of life
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