Bungacast

/495/ Heritage America vs the World? ft. James Pogue

Jun 24, 2025
James Pogue, a special correspondent for Vanity Fair and author of Chosen Country: A Rebellion in the West, dives into the pivotal 2016 Malheur occupation and its ideological implications. He discusses how the Jacksonian concept of America resonates today and what it reveals about political polarization. With insights on Mormonism's role in U.S. history and the ongoing divide in conservative circles, Pogue explores the clash of beliefs within the MAGA movement and the broader narrative of winners versus losers in American politics.
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INSIGHT

Bundy Family's Deep Alienation

  • The Bundy family's conflict with the federal government is rooted in a deep belief of coordinated genocide against rural people by the government and environmentalists.
  • The 2014 Bundy Ranch standoff and subsequent events revealed fundamental alienation and guerilla-style resistance within the U.S.
ANECDOTE

Pogue's Dangerous Access to Bundys

  • James Pogue arrived at the Malheur refuge shortly after occupation and met Ammon Bundy amid tension with FBI raids.
  • Despite danger and suspicions, he gained access by conveying understanding of ranchers' feelings and environmentalist conflicts.
INSIGHT

Jacksonian Roots of Western Conflict

  • Jacksonian ideology embodies a deeply-held American ideal about freedom and land ownership tied to frontier history.
  • Bundy supporters connect federal land restrictions to socialism that erodes their means of production and liberty.
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