Our guest is the head of Service Management for Deliotte, Nathan MacDonald – also a director at itSMF UK. We discuss how Service Management outside of IT doesn’t have the same baggage that has developed across IT and IT silos and tribes over the years. There is also a great opportunity to really develop people and how they work in developing (IT) SM – these concepts are also really get more relevant with changes, also ITIL 4 has helped. We also debate whether we should keep the (IT) in service management… We also should stop letting ITSM vendors control the debate over ESM… As ever the bar is a better draw and Nathan’s choice is one for celebration.