Journalist Helen Lewis spent much of last year knee-deep in gurus — the Steve Jobs, Russell Brands, and Jordan Petersons who captivate (and capture) audiences with their spiritual aura and (increasingly) podcasts  — while reporting The New Gurus. She postulates that they derive their popularity, in part, to the decline of religion in our societies, a topic she explored in her reporting for The Church of Social Justice and The Roots of Woke Culture. In this convo, we cover religion, gurus, genius, feminism, and her infamous interview with Jordan Peterson.

Find more of Helen's work at The Atlantic or on her Substack.

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On the agenda:

-The first Uncertain Things event! [0:00-3:21]

-Setting up Helen [03:22-6:50]

-The decline of religion [06:51-20:38]

-Words, names, and language [20:39-29:26]

-The Joe Rogan test [29:27-43:23]

-Gurus, genius, and the content economy [43:24-51:33]

-Journalists, human-sized narratives, and strong men [51:34-1:09:32]

-How to Interview Jordan Peterson(s) [1:09:33]

-Religion replacements [1:22:04-1:26:36]

Uncertain Things is hosted and produced by Adaam James Levin-Areddy and Vanessa M. Quirk. For more doomsday rumination, subscribe to: uncertain.substack.com.