
We can’t get There from Here: Carbon, Climate and the Call to Wonder - Paul Hawken & Báyò Akómoláfé
Dec 3, 2025
Paul Hawken, a renowned environmentalist and author, teams up with philosopher Báyò Akómoláfé, exploring profound thoughts on climate and connection. They challenge conventional views, emphasizing that carbon is not a villain but a vital element of life. Discussions unveil the limitations of solutionism and highlight the importance of relational approaches. They advocate for addressing root causes over mere fixes, and emphasize care and relational agency, urging listeners to embrace uncertainty and a new politics of emergence.
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Diatoms' Transatlantic Gift
- Báyò recounts the Saharan Bodélé Depression sending 22,000 tons of dust (diatoms) across the Atlantic to nourish the Amazon each year.
- He uses this story to show how 'here' and 'there' are entangled and to challenge solutionistic separations.
Here Is A Relation, Not A Location
- Báyò argues 'here' is not a mere location but a relation entangling people, diatoms, and place across distances.
- He calls out the 'logic of theirness' that assumes simple interventions can move us from here to there.
Language Repeats The Problem
- Paul Hawken critiques the climate movement's language that 'others' the planet with combat verbs like fight and tackle.
- He says that framing climate as an enemy reproduces the duality that caused the crisis.














