Mawusi Amoaku supports special education with sketchnoting - S13/E08

May 9, 2023

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Episode notes

In this episode, Mawusi Amoaku, a fashion designer turned educator shares how stumbling on sketchnoting helped her overcome learning challenges which she now shares with students that have special learning needs.

Running Order

Intro
Welcome
Who is Mawusi?
Origin Story
Mawusi's current work
Sponsor: Concepts
Tips
Tools
Where to find Mawusi
Outro

Links

Amazon affiliate links support the Sketchnote Army Podcast.

Tools

Amazon affiliate links support the Sketchnote Army Podcast.

Tips

Continue feeding your mind.
Even if you go digital, keep drawing by hand.
Don't overthink it. Just do it.
Be open to trying something new.
Listen to other sketchnoters.
Share your work.
Experience with other layouts, find out what works for you.
Collaborate with your colleagues.
Ask for feedback.
Be intentional and tell someone your goal.
Don't give up. Be patient.

Credits

Producer: Alec Pulianas
Theme music: Jon Schiedermayer
Shownotes and transcripts: Esther Odoro

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Episode Transcript

Mike Rohde: Hey everyone, it's Mike Rohde, and I am here with my friend, Mawusi Amoaku. How are you doing, Mawusi?

Mawusi Amoaku: I'm doing good, Mike.

MR: It's so good to have you.

MA: How are you?

MR: I'm doing great. It's always great for me to have someone interesting on the show to talk about their visual thinking journey and the work they do and the impact they're having. And I feel like you're someone who definitely is doing that. And I love to share those stories.

I think that's the core reason why the podcast exists is to just reveal really interesting people all around the world doing great things in the visual thinking space. So, with that, why don't you tell us, give us an introduction, who you are and what you do.

MA: Okay. My name is Mawusi Amoaku, and I'm originally from Ghana. Grew up in Northern Ireland, hence my accent. I work in education supporting learners with additional learning needs, and I love it.

MR: As I understand, in our chats that led up to having you on the show, you've pretty recently discovered Sketchnoting. I would love to hear your origin story around that. Where did that come from? And maybe look back to when you were a little girl, like, have you been drawing since you were a little girl? And how did those two worlds and your teaching all overlap into where you are today?

MA: I think I'll start by telling you a little bit about me growing up. I've always loved drawing. When I was younger, I wanted to be an artist. And I love hand lettering and I love making zines. In terms of drawing, well, I try to draw something every day.

I stumbled across sketchnotes in 2020 and it really transformed my learning experience. Although I work in education, I had to do a course as part of my job role to help me support my learners with learning needs. And I was finding the course particularly difficult because when I would read my textbook and make notes, when I came to writing the assignments, I would just forget everything. And I was so frustrated. Like I started to fall behind with my assignments, which I thought, this is ironic because what I do, I support learners to get their assignments done. Here I am, I can't even do my own.

I didn't wanna tell anyone that I was struggling, so I just kinda had an idea. I thought to myself, "If this was one of my students, what would I say?" Like, I would encourage them to keep going, but I would encourage them to find another way. So, one day I just thought, right, I'm just gonna Google it.

I was so behind with my work, I really didn't have time to be doing this, but I thought, I'm gonna have to try and find some answers. So yeah, I went on the internet and I researched and I came up with mnemonics, memory palace, mine maps, and finally, sketch notes. And that changed everything.

So, for me, the first sketch note I made was of a "TED Talk" because I bought your book and I wanted to find out like, straight away, does this thing work. Should I continue with it or not? 'Cause I need to know that I'm investing my time wisely.

And I sketch noted, I think it was called The Greatest Ted Talk Ever Told, I think that's the name of it. I was like, 20 minutes long. And I was like, I don't even know if I still have the sketchnote, but I remember the video. And I sketchnoted that and I thought, "Oh, wow."

And then when I read my textbook, there were certain topics that I was really struggling with. So, I decided, I'm going to sketch note this, but I set myself boundaries 'cause I used to write pages and pages of notes and never read it, even though I used different colored pens, et cetera. I thought, okay, I'm gonna limit myself to an A4 sheet of paper per topic.

I went to the glossary in the—when you talk about creating an icon library, I thought, okay, so for each topic, I'll look at the glossary and write down what those keywords are to create my icon library. And then I'll read a chapter and then I will sketch note it and that's it.

I did that for each of the chapters, particularly the ones I was struggling with. Then I used those notes to write my assignments. I have to say, before I started doing that, I just thought, why am I not remembering this information? Why I'm not understanding this?

But then when I sketchnoted it, I was so encouraged because I realized I do know it, I do understand it, and I can do it. So, it really helped me with my confidence. And I did the work.

I have to say I was really behind with my work, but I did it. I got it done, I got my assignments in on time. And I remember thinking, you know, I actually do love learning, but that experience was so negative for me that I thought, now I kind of understand how some of our students feel when they can't understand a piece of work because it does knock your confidence, it does make you feel stressed, it does make you feel isolated.

For me, I was too embarrassed to tell anyone because that was actually my job was to help other people. And I couldn't help myself. When I got to the end of the course, what I couldn't understand was I—the course was not finished, but I wanted to keep learning 'cause it was just so addictive. Like to do the sketch notes it was such a fun activity to do.

It was right at the summertime, so I kept learning it. I kept researching effective ways to learn and reading different books that inspired me. One of them was "Moonwalking with Einstein" by Josh Foer, I think is how you pronounce his name. He talks about using the memory palace as a way to remember information.

I was just fascinated. I was hooked. And then I thought, "Oh my goodness, I wouldn't mind doing another course." From not wanting to do the course that I did, I wanted to keep learning. Well, I started looking for opportunities. Any opportunity to sketchnote.

At that point, I hadn't shared my work with anyone. It was just for myself. Towards the end of 2021—no, end of 2020, 2021, my New Year's resolution, I kept it pretty open and creative, was to invest in myself. That would primarily be learning a new skill and also, trying things that I probably wouldn't normally try 'cause I would be afraid to do it.

One of them was actually public speaking. You know, do a workshop for my colleagues because I am a shy person. I'm an introvert, and the idea of speaking in front of any group of people scares me. So, that January, like that whole year actually, I started thinking, what if, what if? And starting to do different things, and showing my work.

In terms of the sketch notes, I didn't actually use it at work initially. I tried to fight the urge to sketchnote. I really wanted to do it, but I was kind of worried what people would think.

My background is art, actually, it's fashion design. Everyone knows that I love to draw, but I thought that if I drew at work, maybe people would think that I wasn't taking my job seriously. Or like, "Why is she doodling? Why are you doing that?"

One time in a class I was supporting a group of students and nearly all of the students in the class had a learning need. I used to find it really difficult to support the group 'cause the needs vary a lot. I remember observing one student in particular who really struggled to understand what he needed to do.

In the class, the students would rely on me to take notes. And I remember thinking, well, my handwriting's not great, and if they don't understand the notes, probably my handwriting. But I kind of thought I'd like the students to read the notes, use them, understand them, and become more independent.

I thought if I sketch note this—it was partly 'cause I was struggling to write down the traditional way, but I thought if I sketch note this, maybe they'll be so curious, they'll want to read it. I really wanted them to want to read it and use it.

I started to do it. And I shared that with the teacher because I was supporting the students in the class, I wasn't the teacher. I shared what I wanted to do with the teacher. I told them that this is a new thing that I'm learning. I would like to get better at it. Perhaps could I do it in this class? Because I feel that the more I do it, the better I get. And if I do every single day, I'm definitely gonna improve.

He was really supportive and I started to use it. At first, the students didn't really know what to make of it. They're like, "Mawusi, you are drawing? Oh, my goodness. Like, what is this? This is serious."

I thought, oh dear, I have to tell them this is really important. You're supposed to use this. So, I give them a little speech. I said, you know, "Yes, it took a lot of effort, but I'm doing this because I want you to do well. I really want you to enjoy your learning, but I want you to use the notes, understand it, use it, but not to rely on me to learn that you can do these things for yourself as well."

And so, I did it. Then the next day I was like, oh, I might have to reinforce that. I started to do my little speech, and they said, "Mawusi, we know you told us yesterday." I never mentioned it again. And so, I kept doing it.

It was during the pandemic, so we were in our bubbles. That meant a unique opportunity. I got to stay with my students in the various classes that they were in. And I continued to sketch note in each of those classes. They got used to it.
I didn't have to say anything.

What happened was the teacher would deliver the lesson and I would have a clipboard sketch note the lesson, scan it, and share. We use Microsoft Teams. I would share it on Teams and all the students would have access to those notes.

One of the unexpected dividends, I guess, of doing that was it meant that students who have learning needs could use it, but everybody could use it. Whether they have a learning need or not. And if someone misses a lesson, they have those notes to help them to catch up.

It was tiring, and a part of me wondered why I even started because I didn't actually have an end plan for when I would stop doing this. So, I would ask the teacher, "Would you like me to stop?" I kind of secretly hoping he would say, "It's okay, Mawusi. You can stop." And he is like, "No, keep going. It's all right. Keep going. And I said, "But they're not using it". He's like, "They're using it. Walk around the class."

The first student who we went to, I hadn't said anything and within minutes of me sharing it on Teams, he had printed the notes and he was looking at it. I should actually clarify that this was a media lesson and so they work on computers. He was referring to the notes and doing his work.

I hadn't had to say anything to any of the students. They knew the pattern, this is what happens in class. Then he said, "Okay, keep walking around." I noticed that they were all using it, but in their own way, whether it could be on the screen or on their phone or if they printed it out, but they were just doing their work.

And I was like, "Oh my goodness, it actually works." I was so happy I just wanted to do a happy dance, but obviously, I was working so I didn't. But yeah, so that's kind of how it started in the classroom.

I made some revision notes because I wanted to encourage my students to revise 'cause not a lot of them would revise for their exams. The exciting thing about the sketch notes was that I later found that they were being shared by other tutors. It gave an opportunity for me to talk about my work.

And actually, one of the key things was, although I made the sketch notes for the students, I didn't really know what I was doing. It was an experiment. And I asked them for feedback. And the feedback from the students was invaluable because that's how I improved it.

For example, one of the parameters that I set for myself, which was limit the information to one page, didn't necessarily work for the students because it was actually too much information on one page.

MR: Really?

MA: Yeah. So, with each sketch note I made, I would make changes because they were giving me constant feedback. And then tutors gave me valuable feedback. For example, because my handwriting's terrible, I used to write in capitals because that's my way of writing neatly.

One of the dyslexia specialist tutors said, "Well, actually that's really hard for someone to read if they have dyslexia, 'cause it's the shape of the letters that helps them to differentiate the words."

Well, had to kind of retrain my brain to write in lowercase as well. It was just really useful to share the sketch notes as a way to improve, but also yeah, to share my skills.

But Mike, I have to say you did influence me a lot in that because I attended the sketchnote workshop, or no, the sketchnote camp that was held online in 2021. And your keynote speech was about care and service and community.

And how we as sketchnoters 'cause we are a global community as Sketchnoters can do good to our organizations that we work for our communities. We are in a very specific situation in the pandemic and it's affecting all of us in different ways. How can we use those skills to benefit others?

That was what encouraged me actually because up to that point, I was doing it for myself, but then I thought, well actually there is a community of people who are doing this and I'm going do it in my workplace and I'm gonna share it.

I'm not online, but I'm gonna share it in the space where I work. And I hope that it'll benefit other people. But really the driving force for me to share sketchnotes is that I was really desperate when I find it. And I was thinking somebody else might be in a similar situation and I hope it helps them.

MR: It's really funny because that's my origin story. I was desperate as well. The way I was taking notes was just so frustrating and I'd forced myself like you to l to limit myself to a small notebook and switched from pencil to pen.

The experiment that I first did really set me on the path to say, "Hey, this is working for me. I really enjoy this. I can't wait for the next workshop or event that I can go try this and experiment with. "

So very much similar in that way. And hoping, you know, if this is working for me, there has to be somebody else who this will help. And then also, you know, sharing it with other people and getting feedback was a similar experience.

It sounds like yours was even more, I guess, accelerated because you didn't have a lot of time, you just had to keep working and then taking feedback live and then incorporating it as you worked, which is probably good for you.

You almost got into a mode, it seemed to me like where you were just doing the work, you're getting feedback, you're making modifications, and next thing you know, you're writing upper and lower case, you're modifying the structure and you're serving.

It seems to me like you're someone who, if you're serving someone else, you're willing to kind of jump through hoops and go over fire and do these things because you know it's gonna help your students.

In some ways, doing it for yourself, you sort of run into a point where like, "Uh, I don't feel like doing it anymore. Who's there to hold you accountable?" But you found an accountability group, which were your students who actually gave you the feedback and held you accountable and pushed you further to really accelerate your learning. And also, it ultimately benefited them, right? Because your sketchnotes started to align for what their needs were. Is that a fair way to think of that?

MA: I would think so. I think the desperation I felt at the beginning was something for a long time that I actually tried to forget. And I remember telling my boss this, and she said something to me, which was quite profound. She said you know, "It is giving you more empathy for your students." And that is exactly it.

I've always loved learning, but I've never struggled to the extent that I struggle that time. But I'm really glad for that experience, well, because I share that with the students. I tell them I struggle.

But when you struggle, you always have a choice. You know, you can find another way. You don't need to give up. It's kind of like if you see it as an opportunity to do it a different way, basically that is what I learned. And that is one of the reasons why I am so passionate about this because I'm so lucky I stumbled across it.

It was actually when I read a book about the memory palace, it was a free book on Apple Books. And then I found another free book about sketch notes. It was basically a compilation created by educators and they were talking about the benefits of sketch notes and they shared examples of theirs.

And that's where I heard about your mini-workshop, which was on YouTube. So, I watched the video and then I was like, that is actually why I bought the book. 'Cause I was like, "I need to do this. This is it."

I have to say thank you to those people for putting the art there because I would never have found it. One of the other reasons why I was confident that it would work with my students was your episode where you interviewed Laura Kazan, I think you pronounce her name.

MR: Yes, yes, yes.

MA: That episode actually—I have listened to every episode of your podcast. I'll just tell you that, and the reason being, I wanted to learn as much as possible from your interviews with different people of and how they've used it. But her interview really stood out for me because I thought, "Those are my students. Those are my students, and I think they will benefit from this."

One of the things she said at the end of her interview was, in her three tips, she said, "Is your school special education department willing to support sketchnoting."
I thought as a department that I worked for in my college. So that is what give me the confidence to share it with my team because, you know, it made such a difference to her son, and I thought, well, it might just help our students as well.

So, your podcast helped me a lot because there was something that I was doing by myself, but in listening to your interviews with other podcasters or other sketchnoters, I kind of felt like I wasn't by myself in doing this. I was so encouraged. So, thank you.

MR: Oh, that's really great to hear. You know often doing podcasts can be a lonely business because you do these interviews and of course, they're enjoyable in the moment and you publish and there's often not a ton of feedback that I receive back from the episodes, but I keep doing them because I enjoy it.

I think that's the driving force. And I know that there are people, and I know that because I hear like you and others who will say, yeah, I've listened to all the episodes. I can't wait for another one to come out. So, I know there are fans out there, which is, you know, really exciting and helpful, and especially when I hear it in the context of your—I would call your experience a journey, right.

You sort of definitely went on this journey where you kept on discovering something else and that led you to something else and that led you to something else. And you continued to follow the thread all the way to kind of where you're at now, which is really cool because I think so many, you know, with the internet especially stumbling onto something can lead to something else if you allow it to if you're curious and you follow that path.

I think that's a good reminder for us that sometimes it's just being open to something and taking it one step further might lead to something that you could never have expected. Your story, your origin story here sounds exactly like that. That string, you just kept pulling the string and now here you are.

MA: Yeah. Actually, one of the reasons why I'm excited is for quite a few years, I have been looking for a passion. You know, my background is fashion design, I like to sew, and I love education, but I was looking for something that I would be really passionate about. And this is definitely it. So yeah, I love it.

MR: Wow. Well, I love your origin story. Thank you for sharing all the detail and giving us insights and where those pivot points were. I would love to hear is there a project of any kind may be that you're beginning that you're excited about that you'd love to share with us.

MA: I guess I would say is I've had more opportunities to share sketch notes with my colleagues and I've been in training staff on how to sketchnote. For me, someone who I said is kind of an introvert. I find it really hard to talk to people. This is like a watershed moment.

I have to say the sharing of sketch notes has just helped me develop more confidence in myself. So yeah, that's something. And this year, in particular, the college that I work for the focus is on inclusion.

So, as I started to share my sketch notes, last year we had a guest speaker and he's an inclusion expert. And I decided long before the event, I am definitely gonna sketch note this. Only I didn't wanna tell anyone because I didn't wanna put pressure in myself.

So, I sat at the back and I made some sketchnotes, worked on it over the summer, and then my goal was I'm going to share it with my colleagues because I wanna tell more people, but I wanted to sketchnote something that we had all attended so that it would be more meaningful.

And the exciting thing is this has led to more opportunities to sketchnote for different departments. I've done collaborations with colleagues who are specialists in different fields, and we've combined our skills to train other staff.

So, yeah, it's such a fun thing to do, but it's a really useful way to communicate things that might be quite difficult to communicate in words basically. It's very engaging and I'm excited that I did it and that it's being shared.

MR: That's really great. I love your approach of doing something that would be meaningful to the entire group so they could benefit from it. That's a really great way of layering two things you're passionate about sketchnoting and also about this opportunity to learn. And then making that as a service to your colleagues, right?

Because I'm sure that they're seeing how this is having an impact on students and how it's helping them to learn and retain. So, they definitely see the benefit, and now that's now opened up even the opportunity to teach them these concepts so they could start to think like, "Well, how could I use it in my curriculum for my students in an interesting way." Which is you're just becoming this real true advocate inside your college. Which is pretty cool.

MA: I think also part of it was in terms of—I would say when someone's sketchnoting, I know this is actually a tip, but I'll just say it in advance, is feeding to your mind because when I was doing this quietly, I was reading a lot of books about innovation and sketch notes and various things.

There was a book called—oh, have I written it on somewhere? I have it here. The book is called "Creative Confidence: Unleash the Creative Potential Within All of Us" by Tom Kelly and David Kelly. That book was pivotal for me as well, because they have an organization called, IDEO. I don't know if you've heard of it before.

MR: Yes.

MA: IDEO is responsible for promoting innovation, I guess is how to put it, by taking a multidisciplinary approach. That is what has encouraged me to collaborate with my colleagues because when we think about organizations and how we can benefit our organizations when we work together and share our different skills, we bring different perspectives as well, that is powerful.

So that is one of the reasons why I'm sharing it with my colleagues because although sketchnoting is my skill, I'm learning so much from them and I hope they're learning from me as well.

MR: I'm guessing, just judging by the little bit that I feel here, they're probably learning a lot from you. Which is great. I think that's so admirable for you to not keep it to yourself, but spread it further and offer it to your colleagues, which is great to hear. Well, let's shift…

MA: I was gonna attribute that to you too because you have created a community of sharing. That is, for me, one of the things that drew me to sketch notes because it's such a friendly environment and people are very encouraging of one another.

MR: Definitely, something that I saw in other communities that I was involved with. In the web design community, there was a very welcoming and open environment there, and I just wanted to model that.

It seems to me like, because we modeled that early, that it drew other like-minded people, and we seemed to have built a community that's sort of sharing and open and helping each other all the way down. So, when new people come, the culture is just, hey, this is a space where we share and we teach each other and we help each other.

I always say, there's so much opportunity to share this idea. There's no reason why we should be thinking that we're fighting over table scraps when there's so much opportunity for everyone to have a place at the table and do work and have an impact. There's just so much work to do.

I'm glad that you've sensed that. It's definitely something intentional and I hope that it just continues throughout the community. So that's really great to hear. Thank you.

MA: Thank You.

MR: Yeah. Well, we all do it together, so that's great to hear. At this point, I would love to shift to something more practical, I guess. Not that the other stuff isn't practical, but the people on the podcast love hearing about tools and how people use their tools.

So, let's shift into the tool discussion and let's shift in specifically to analog tools and then follow up if you use digital tools with what digital tools you use.

MA: Okay. I would say use what you have, start with what you have. For example, well, I used to use A-4 sheets of paper because I sometimes destroy my work if it's not very good. Yeah, I have a habit of that. But I started with A4 sheets of paper and a pen although it was a refillable pen—you know the FriXion refillable black pen?

MR: Mm-hmm.

MA: Which it's kind of the best of both worlds. I always think of a pen as the tool that makes me fearless and the pencil that makes me cautious. But the FriXion pen is a pen, but I can rub it out. I'm kind of contradicting myself anyway.

I started it with that one because if I'm in the class and I'm sketchnoting, sometimes I make spelling errors and that helps me to fix it really quickly. But lately, actually, I haven't used that as much, so maybe my confidence has grown. I like to use Muji. Have you heard of Muji pens?

MR: Yes. Of course. It's a famous Japanese store, which I've been to the one in New York City, but I know it's worldwide as well.

MA: I love Muji. The Knot 0.38 and the Knot 0.5, my absolute favorites. One of my colleagues introduced me to the Paper Mate InkJoy Gel Pen.

MR: Oh, yes.

MA: You've heard that one.

MR: Those are good as well. Yeah.

MA: That one's amazing. And actually, just recently stumbled across—I didn't realize that you could get gray highlighter pens, so I used the Stabilo Boss highlighter in Gray. Well, I was using the Tombow markers, but they're quite expensive. So, I like to buy a box of the Stabilo Boss. They're really good.

But paper-wise, I highly recommend dot grid paper because it makes my work look neat. Some people say, "Oh, Mawusi, how do you do such straight lines? Or, you know, that's so neat." I'm like, "If you zoom in, you will see the dots." It really helps a lot.

In the classroom, I use a clipboard, which is quite handy. But also, if I'm doing a finished sketch note by hand, I use a transparent clipboard. That's a little tip. If you use a transparent clipboard and then you use one of the, you know the flat LED light boxes, you can trace your work. So, it's just really handy.

MR: Interesting. So, you have a light source behind this clear clipboard, and then you can lay the rough sketch underneath and then do your finished on top of it. Am I understanding that right?

MA: Yeah. And those things are very cheap to buy, but perfect for what I need. The dot grid paper that I absolutely love is Clairefontine paper. It just feels really, really nice.

MR: It works well with those pens that you've mentioned. A question, for those who are dot grid connoisseurs, I know that there's different levels of dot grid. Like I know some have very light gray dots and some are darker.

Where is the Clairefontaine fall on that spectrum? Is it relatively light dots so that it's, you know, kind of goes invisible at some point? Or are they a little bit darker?

MA: I think it's kind of light because people don't really notice it. I kind of feel like I'm cheating 'cause I'm thinking, they think I'm really neat, but I'm not.

MR: Well, I suppose if you're using the Stabilo Boss gray marker, I guess you could adjust your exposure, say in Photoshop or whatever your photo tool is, and increase the contrast. Those dots would probably drop away and you wouldn't even see them, right? So, that's probably another option as well.

MA: Oh, actually another tip. I find when I was sketchnoting in the classroom, I was taking too long with preparing the page in advance. What I did was I had a template, the original was dot grid paper. And because I'm in the classroom, I just photocopied that page. And so, the dot grid was even less noticeable so when I scanned it, nobody knew. So, yeah.

MR: Interesting.

MA: That's another little tip.

MR: Cool. That's pretty cool. We're getting free tips here. This is pretty great. Now, does the Clairefontine paper come in like a block, and then you tear off sheets as needed? Or is it bound in some way? How is that paper? How do you work with the paper?

MA: It's in a block and then you tear it off. They say it comes in A4 and A5. I think that's the European size. But when you tear it off, it's slightly smaller.

MR: Oh, I see. Because there's perforations on the edge probably.

MA: Yeah. But I think they provide the paper for Rodeo Notebooks. Is it Rodeo?

MR: Yes. Yes, exactly.

MA: Yeah, I think they have that same paper, but basically, I like loose sheets because I can then arrange it in whichever way I want. And it's much easier to scan your work if it's not in a notebook.

MR: Good point. If I'm not mistaken, I think Clairefontine and Rhoda are both French companies, so it would make sense that they would collaborate in some way. Maybe they're owned by the same parent company for all I know. I don't know. But I think Rhoda Notebooks work in a similar way where there's a—and maybe they calculate this, right.

So actually, the part you tear off is maybe A4 and they add a little bit. So, when the perforation tears away and what's left in the notebook is a little bit taller than A4. You know what I mean? Like, when you tear out the sheet, it's exactly A4. I don't know if that's true, but I've used Rodeo paper—

MA: No, it's smaller.

MR: Is it? Okay. So, it is—

MA: It's annoying that it's smaller, but I still like the paper. It's still like the paper, but it's smaller.

MR: Got it. Okay. Good to know. Good to know for those who find that important, little tip again there. What about digital? Do you have digital tools that you use? Are you using an iPad or some other tool like that?

MA: I've started using the iPad Pro with the Apple Pencil. The first sketch note I did with that was one of the guest speaker because I just wanted to take the sketch notes to a more, in my view, professional level.

Because when I was having to trace it for a finished sketch note, I wanted to kind of take away some of those steps and do more of a rough sketch and then do the illustration. I use Concepts. Oh, my goodness, Concepts is so good.

MR: It's a great tool. Yeah.

MA: And Procreate, obviously. Yeah. Everyone uses it. I have to admit, I don't know how to use both of them really, really well, but I use them enough to get the finish that I would like. That's something to explore later. I have to admit, I prefer working on paper. I just love the feel of paper. That's my go-to.

MR: Yeah. I think many sketchnoters will use a paper-like, or some of other similar matte screen protector, which sort of approximates the feel of paper. I mean, it's not exactly. I think paper-like, probably achieves it the best with the best clarity, but there are other screen protectors that also do the same. Which helps, but still, it's not quite ink on paper, it's closer.

MA: It's good. But I have to say by going on the iPad, it makes me more of a perfectionist and I don't like that because at least when I sketchnote in the classroom, it feels hot off the press and I haven't had a chance to make it beautiful because my objective is to make meaningful notes that are useful. So, I think when I do my digital sketchnotes, I'm thinking too much about aesthetics. I'm trying to break away from doing that 'cause it's very tempting.

MR: Yeah. It's almost as though paper and pen puts emphasis on the process. Because you have less control. Whereas when you go to an iPad or something, you end up inadvertently being maybe even more focused, a little bit more focused on the output. Because you have the ability to undo or to redo things or to change things, or to move things.

Heedlessly, if you allowed yourself to, and there's something about the paper that, you know, maybe the friction of the paper in the sense of if you do it hot off the press, right. And even if you redid it, let's say you wanted to do it a little nicer, like if there's some friction there, right?

You've gotta redraw all this stuff on another sheet on your clear clipboard with the light coming from behind and it's a little bit of friction. You wouldn't wanna do it a third time, right? So, you would probably stop at that point. Where with the iPad, it's very easy to just keep noodling and noodling and noodling and never finish. So, I could see the definite different feel for them.

And, you know, I always think of the two, sort of provide different purposes. So, I often use the iPad for illustrations where, you know, it's gonna be printed or there is some final output that's important. But I found this recently on a project, just to point out this.

I was doing the iPad with—I use paper and I was doing sketches and I had sort of built a little template for myself for this illustration project. And I found myself getting really rigid and I was resisting drawing and I was taking longer on each piece.

And I got to the point where I said, wait a minute, I need to just change this up. So, I got the manuscript for the book project that I'm working on, and I just got my little pen and all I could fit were in the margins, little thumbnails along the edge of where the text was. So, it was very limited space.

I just started doing these little thumbnails and started drawing concept. And it was amazing how much it freed me up to just think, "Oh, a little thumbnail, big deal. You know, that one didn't work. Draw another one. Oh, that didn't work. Draw another one. Boy like that. What if I do another one?"

Next thing you know, every one of these ideas I was having to illustrate for you know, I was doing three or four different concepts or little variations, right? Suddenly the floodgates opened, and I was just like moving through the manuscript like crazy. And all it was, was this shift from, you know, sort of the rigidity or the perfectionism or something on the iPad back to paper and a pen with limited space.

Again, coming back to limitations and embracing them just keeps proving itself as a really effective tool for, at least for me, freeing my mind to kind of focus on the content and really get into the process and stop worrying so much about the output. So, I definitely can resonate with what you're saying here.

MA: I agree. I also would say that I find that as I've—I hope I go back to how I was before. When I started Sketchnoting and I didn't have anything to go by, any previous sketch notes, basically all I thought was, I'm just gonna do it. I'm just gonna do it.

Now that I've been doing it, I'm starting to be more cautious. 'Cause I'm like, what's happening? Because I'm almost scared to do it because I feel that people expect it to be good. What if it's not good? So, I just need to just do it.

MR: I think it would be interesting for you to actually ask someone to do some, you know, user-testing and ask them what do you expect out of it. And you probably would find that they would think like, whatever you're doing is amazing.

They wouldn't care either way. They just love that you are thinking this way if you get to the core of it. I mean, the beauty of it is we often sort of find ourselves, like the story I told you about the illustration, I sort of boxed myself into this situation.

It finally dawned on me like, “Wait a minute, I'm in charge of this project. Why am I feeling as though I have to follow some rigid template that I made? Like, I can change anytime I want to. I’m just going to grab the manuscript and a pen and forget the iPad. I'm not touching the iPad.” We have the opportunity to have you know, the ability to make those changes and to try and experiment and sort of work our way back.

So that's really good news that if you ever find yourself bound and/or you've painted yourself in a corner, well, you know, your shoes might get some paint on them, but you can walk out of the corner and just start over again.

That's always good news is you have the opportunity to shake it up and try some new things or go back to the thing that worked for you and start again and see, what did I learn from the other one and how can I apply this now knowing it, which is sounds like a little bit of where you're at as well.

MA: Yeah. I wanna say one of my daily practices for sketch notes is that I sketch note sermons online. There's a church that does a daily devotional which is like 15 minutes long. I don't do it first thing in the morning, 'cause I'm not a morning person. I do it later on in the evening.

I find that those sketch notes are more real because nobody sees them except me. Actually, I've moved from single sheets of paper to a notebook for that. So, I have a whole notebook full of them. What I like about them is they're just themselves. I have not tried to make anything beautiful. I just quickly got that information done. So yeah, even if you go digital, keep drawing by hand.

MR: Maybe that's your first tip since we're now sort of heading into the tips department.

MA: Oh yeah.

MR: And I guess I should frame it. I always frame this. Probably regular listeners like you will have heard this a million times, but, you know, give us three tips that you would say to someone who feels stuck. Someone who feels they're on a plateau. Just these little inspirations to kind of break out of maybe a rut. And I think if you wanna go further in this, what you've talked about, you know, go back to drawing by hand. This could be your first tip, I think.

MA: Okay. I have many tips, and it's hard to choose one to three, so might give a few more. Is that all right?

MR: That's fine. Yeah, please.

MA: Okay. First, one is don't overthink it. Just do it. Just do it. I tried to talk myself out of it when I was doing it at work, but I have to say when I did it, what a sigh of relief. I really enjoyed myself. Even though I was getting paid for it. I was like, "Wow, this is fun." So just do it. That's the first tip.

If you can't do something, don't worry. Find another way. Be open to trying something different. And if you're struggling with your sketch note, listen to the podcast. Listen to the different interviews with different sketchnoters, find out how they're using it, and especially make note of their tips. What are they doing that? And just try it.

Next one is share your work. I am not online at present, but I will be. So, share it at work. Share it with friends or even just sketch note in a diary or something. But yeah, share it with other people. Experiment especially with the layout of the sketch note. Find what works for you. Actually, this is way more than three. I'm gonna give you a few more.

MR: Okay. Go for it.

MA: Collaborate with your colleagues. That is golden. Collaborate with your colleagues 'cause then you get to make really meaningful connections with colleagues. I know working with people that I wouldn't have an opportunity to work with or our path and way not have crossed, but sketch notes has kind of opened the door for that. So, collaborate.

Ask for feedback. Another golden one. Because that is how you're going to improve. If I had sketchnoted and sketchnoted and sketchnoted and nobody saw it, how could I improve? I might have improved, but maybe a lot slower. So definitely ask for feedback.

Tell someone your goal. If this is something that you wanna start doing, share that with someone. Because what really helped me, what was so pivotal, was that teacher. He encouraged me because, you know, my very first sketch note, I have it in the classroom that I did it, it's not wonderful.

I thought he was gonna laugh, but he just encouraged me. And that kind of helped me to be accountable because I've told people, this is something that I wanna do. So be intentional and tell people about it. If it's a New Year's resolution say, you're more likely to keep it if you've told people you're gonna do it.

I'll give you a bonus tip. Don't give up. Be patient. Be patient because when you sketch note, say for example at work, people may not understand what you're doing at first, they might think it's a bit strange, they might wonder why you're doing it, they might actually tell you to stop doing it. Nobody told me to stop doing it. But just say somebody might, don't let that determine whether you do it or not. Keep going. Do not get discouraged. Just do it.

MR: Well, those are fantastic tips. I'm glad that you added some additional ones because it seems to me like this is a great series of tips that you've shared with us and directly from your own experience.

I can tie them all back to the story you told of how you began sketchnoting at work and, you know, with your students in mind. And next thing you know, you're collaborating with colleagues and sharing information with them and having an influence, right?

This one little experiment led to influencing your whole college, it seems like, and probably leading in that direction, which is pretty cool. So, thank you so much for the tips and offering them to us.

MA: Thank you.

MR: This is the part where we typically ask where we can find you. And as we chatted just before we began recording, you're in the middle of developing probably a website and working out social media stuff. So, if you don't have anything yet, that's okay. We will put that in the show notes if it's available when we come to this.

Maybe in lieu of doing that since we'll just do that in the show notes. If you're listening, just peek in the show notes, and if Mawusi's got some information, we'll put it in there for you so you can find her.

I just wanted to let you know that I'm so impressed with your story and how you've just moved yourself forward with a servant attitude serving your students and how this led you to where you're going and you continue to serve. I think you just a really great example of our community.

You really represent our community, and I'm really proud to have you as a representative where you are and so encouraged by your story. Thank you so much for taking time and spending time to share it with us. And I'm so excited to hear how this will influence the next person who hears it and all the influences you're gonna have in the place where you are. So, thank you so much, Mawusi.

MA: Can I say a big thank you to you?

MR: Sure.

MA: You have encouraged me so much. You didn't know that I was listening to all of your episodes. You didn't know that I attended your workshop online. When I went to the sketchnote camp that was online, you could only see my illustration. I wasn't visible. I did all those things quietly and, you and your community has encouraged me so much, even when I was doing this by myself. So, thank you so much.

MR: Well, thank you.

MA: I'm forever grateful.

MR: Well, it's an honor. It's an honor to serve, so thank you. Sounds like we're in a good place and we continue to have our influence. Sometimes it doesn't seem like you are, but you are having an influence. So, keep going. Just as Mawusi said in her tips, keep going.

Well, this has been so much fun. It's been so enjoyable to talk with you and hear your stories, and I'm just excited to see where this all goes for you and how you're gonna fit into our community. For everyone who's listening to the podcast, this wraps another episode of "Sketchnote Army Podcast”. Until the next episode, this is Mike and Mawusi signing off for today. Talk to you soon.