Astra Taylor and David Graeber: Democracy May Not Exist, But ...
Dec 18, 2019
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Authors Astra Taylor and David Graeber discuss the concept of democracy and its shortcomings. Topics include redefining democracy, exploring debt collection and forgiveness, creating a democratic people in an undemocratic society, the sustainability of the current debt model, the rolling jubilee, addressing debt and demanding public goods, debt, shame, and democracy, and different models of decision-making and representation.
Democracy should be seen as an ongoing project, not a fixed system.
The Rolling Jubilee project successfully challenged the immutability of debt and influenced political discourse.
Finding ways to enhance citizen participation and accountability in representative democracies is crucial.
Deep dives
The Need for Democratizing Society
Democracy is a horizon that needs to be more robust, as current democracies often function as oligarchies. The goal is not to restore old systems but to see democracy as a constant work in progress.
The Power of Debt Activism
The Rolling Jubilee project aimed to challenge the notion that debts are immutable by buying portfolios of debt and forgiving them. The project successfully raised awareness and influenced political discourse, ultimately leading to billions of dollars in debt relief.
Representative Democracy and Direct Democracy
The debate between representative and direct democracy is complicated. While direct democracy can be more participatory and educational, it may not be feasible at a large scale. The question is how to make representative democracies more accountable and find ways to enhance citizen participation.
The Danger of Wedge Issues and Plebiscites in Democracy
One of the main ideas discussed in the podcast is the potential danger of using wedge issues and plebiscites in democratic processes. It is highlighted that if these tools are used in a way that creates a narrow majority or a close vote, it can lead to a negative perception of democracy. The podcast emphasizes the importance of framing questions in a way that allows for broad consensus and widespread acceptance of the decision. Furthermore, it is suggested that plebiscites should be used sparingly, as true democratic participation involves deliberation and decentralization, rather than a simple binary choice.
The Impact of Debt and Technology on Democracy
Another key point discussed in the podcast is the impact of debt and technology on democracy. It is argued that debt, especially in the form of student loans and consumer debt, can limit individual freedom and constrain people's ability to engage in democratic decision-making. Debt is portrayed as a force that transforms individuals into capitalists, where economic considerations overshadow other aspects of life. Additionally, the podcast highlights the importance of technology in shaping democratic processes, calling attention to the commercialization of the internet and the concentration of wealth in the hands of a few billionaires. The podcast suggests that understanding the implications of technology and addressing wealth inequality are crucial elements in cultivating a healthy democracy.
In her latest book, Astra Taylor – ‘a rare public intellectual, utterly committed to asking humanity’s most profound questions yet entirely devoid of pretensions’ (Naomi Klein) – argues that democracy is not just in crisis, but that real democracy, inclusive and egalitarian, has never existed. Democracy May Not Exist but We’ll Miss It When It’s Gone (Verso) aims to re-examine what we mean by democracy, what we want from it, and understand why it is so hard to realise. Taylor was in conversation with David Graeber, author of Bullshit Jobs and Professor of anthropology at the London School of Economics.
