#10 - Anything That Moves - The My Lai Massacre (w/History on Fire)
Mar 8, 2018
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Guest Paul Meadlo, a soldier involved in the My Lai Massacre, discusses his role in the event. The podcast covers the events leading up to the massacre, the aftermath of the Vietnam War, and the impact on American society. It also explores the soldiers of Charlie Company and their training, as well as the horror and heroism of the My Lai Massacre. The aftermath of the massacre and the concept of a peace system are also discussed.
Charlie Company's perception of the Vietnam War shifted as they realized the Vietnamese were fighting for national liberation, not just communism.
Captain Medina's aggressive leadership and Lieutenant Calley's struggle for respect strained their relationship and contributed to the breakdown of discipline.
The My Lai Massacre demonstrated the devastating impact of war on soldiers, who became jumpy, reactive, and morally compromised.
Courageous helicopter pilot Hugh Thompson and his crew intervened to stop the killings and rescued survivors amidst the atrocities.
The My Lai Massacre serves as a haunting reminder of the chaos, confusion, and lasting emotional turmoil caused by war.
Deep dives
Introduction and Background
This episode introduces Charlie Company, a US Army unit sent to Vietnam in 1967, led by Captain Ernest Medina and Lieutenant William Calley. The soldiers believed they were fighting to liberate the Vietnamese people from communism. Medina was an aggressive leader who instilled an aggressive attitude in his men, while Calley struggled with gaining respect from his men. The unit arrived in Vietnam in December 1967 and initially had a positive experience, interacting with the local population and enjoying their time.
The Changing Dynamics
As the war progressed, Charlie Company's perception of the conflict shifted. They realized that the Vietnamese were fighting for national liberation, not just for communism. However, the US government continued to escalate the war due to domestic political considerations, resulting in more troops being sent to Vietnam. Despite doubts from political leaders, the soldiers felt a sense of duty to fight and be heroes like their fathers in World War II.
Leadership Challenges
Captain Medina, known as Mad Dog Medina, drove his men hard and wanted Charlie Company to be special. Lieutenant Calley, on the other hand, struggled with gaining respect and was seen as a suck-up by his men. The leaders often clashed, and Medina undermined Calley's authority in front of the soldiers. Calley resorted to pulling rank to assert authority, which further strained his relationship with the men.
Initial Positive Interactions
Upon arrival in Vietnam, Charlie Company enjoyed a period of relaxation and positive interactions with the local population. They played with the children, brought them treats, and engaged in friendly activities. Both the soldiers and the Vietnamese civilians had positive memories of these early experiences.
The Tet Offensive and American Forces
During the Tet Offensive, the Vietnamese communist launched a massive attack on South Vietnam, shaking American forces. The offensive was eventually beaten back, but it had a significant impact on the leaders and the public back home.
The Impact of Chronic Stress in Vietnam
The constant danger and stress of the Vietnam War took a toll on soldiers, both physically and psychologically. The environment of guerrilla warfare and the ever-present threat of mines and booby traps caused soldiers to become jumpy, reactive, and sometimes aggressive. Chronic stress turned men into something more like animals, thrust into a war that challenged their moral boundaries.
The Massacre at My Lai
In the village of My Lai, Charlie Company, led by Lieutenant William Calley, committed a massacre of Vietnamese civilians, including women, children, and the elderly. The soldiers went on a rampage, indiscriminately killing and sexually assaulting unarmed civilians. The commanding officer, Captain Ernest Medina, had given orders to kill everything that moves. The massacre was witnessed by soldiers, helicopters overhead, and some soldiers expressed reluctance, but ultimately carried out the orders. The brutal actions at My Lai highlight the breakdown of discipline and the psychological toll of war.
Massacre and Chaos
In this podcast episode, the speaker recounts the horrific events of the My Lai Massacre during the Vietnam War. The narrative describes how American soldiers indiscriminately shot and killed Vietnamese civilians, including women, children, and the elderly. The episode highlights the chaos and confusion of the situation, with some soldiers following orders and others committing heinous acts of violence. The summary emphasizes the devastating impact of the massacre on the innocent villagers and the lasting emotional turmoil it caused for those involved.
Courage and Compassion Amidst the Atrocities
The podcast also recounts the heroic actions of helicopter pilot Hugh Thompson and his crew, who intervened to stop the killings and rescued survivors. Thompson landed his helicopter between the American soldiers and the Vietnamese civilians, risking his own life to protect them. He called for reinforcements, and together they managed to save as many people as possible. The summary highlights this act of courage and compassion amidst the atrocities, emphasizing how Thompson and his crew stood up against the violence and provided a glimmer of hope in the midst of the massacre.
This is part 2 of a series I’ve been working on with Daniele Bolelli. In part 1, he covered the 1864 Sand Creek Massacre carried out by the US Army. I was working on my next major series when Daniele asked me to do a companion episode on My Lai, and I couldn’t pass up the opportunity. From his description:
“Because I felt like I was ordered to do it, and it seemed like that, at the time I felt like I was doing the right thing.” —Private First Class Paul Meadlo explaining his role in the My Lai Massacre.
“How do you shoot babies?” Meadlo was then asked. His reply… “I don’t know. It’s just one of them things.”
“I felt then and I still do that I acted as I was directed, and I carried out the order that I was given and I do not feel wrong in doing so.” — Lieutenant William Calley Jr. addressing his own leadership during the action.
“Every Day/ On our fellow man we prey/ Dog eat Dog/ To Get by/ Hope you like my genocide” — The Offspring
“Hello darkness, my old friend…” — Simon and Garfunkel
“I believe now it is but the commencement of war with this tribe, which must result in their extermination.” — Major Jacob Downing
“Damn any man who sympathizes with Indians! … I have come to kill Indians, and believe it is right and honorable to use any means under God’s heaven to kill Indians. … Kill and scalp all, big and little; nits make lice.” — Quote attributed to Colonel John Chivington
“They were so honorable and so strong, but I felt like they were alone and sometimes when you want to do the right thing, the people that want to do the right thing suffer… even today.” —Lorraine Waters about Silas Soule and Joseph Cramer
“It was hard to see little children on their knees… having their brains beat out by men professing to be civilized.” — Silas Soule
I’m not going to lie. This is one of the darkest episodes of History on Fire. But there are reasons for this journey into the heart of darkness. The stories of Sand Creek and My Lai offer an opportunity to explore human agency, the choices separating good and evil, and how some individuals can choose to become sources of light even in the most horrible circumstances. In part B, I hand the microphone to my friend and master podcaster Darryl Cooper (from The Martyrmade Podcast.) Darryl explores the context of the Cold War in order to come to terms with what happened at My Lai, in Vietnam, in 1968. Horror abounds, but if you are looking for heroes in the midst of the horror, you can do a lot worse than hear about the story of Hugh Thompson.
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