Cycles of History and Consciousness with John Michael Greer
Dec 25, 2023
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Writer and occultist John Michael Greer joins the host to discuss collapse, history, consciousness, and cyclical theories of history. They delve into the works of Spengler and Toynbee, explore the concept of secular religion, debunk misconceptions about the impact of modern medicine, express skepticism towards AI as a savior, explore the relevance of cynicism in today's world, and discuss embracing life amidst decline.
Civilizations go through cyclical phases, resembling springtime, summertime, autumn, and winter, each with distinct characteristics.
Western society's fear of death and obsession with avoiding it stem from religious origins and should be viewed as a natural transition.
The belief in progress and the current fascination with AI are part of a recurring pattern in Western culture, where technological advancements are seen as saviors but often fall short of expectations.
Deep dives
The Cyclic Nature of History and Consciousness
In this podcast episode, the cyclic nature of history and consciousness is discussed. The guest, John Michael Greer, emphasizes the cyclical theories of history put forth by Spengler and Toynbee. He explains that these theories suggest that civilizations go through a cycle of springtime, summertime, autumn, and winter, each representing different societal and cultural characteristics. The current state of Western civilization is described as being on the edge of winter, where the foundations of civilization are breaking apart. The discussion also touches on the importance of understanding the cyclical nature of consciousness and the impact of secular ideologies like the belief in progress. It is noted that the fear of death and the obsession with binary divisions are rooted in Western cultural and religious influences.
The Fear of Death and Western Cultural Influences
The fear of death and the negative association with concepts like darkness, night, and skeletons in Western society is explored. It is suggested that this fear stems from religious origins, particularly the dualistic beliefs of Christianity, which introduced notions of eternal torment for non-believers. These beliefs have left deep wounds in Western culture and have contributed to the aversion towards death. The discussion highlights that death should be viewed as a natural transition and that Western society's obsession with avoiding death and seeking eternal life is a misguided pursuit. The importance of accepting death as part of the transformative cycle of life is emphasized.
The Illusion of Progress and the Myth of AI
The illusory belief in progress and the current fascination with artificial intelligence (AI) are discussed. The guest acknowledges that throughout history, society has been presented with various technological advancements that were believed to be the solution to all problems, only to fall short of expectations. The current hype around AI is seen as part of this pattern. The guest points out that previous advancements, such as personal computers, were also expected to transform society but ultimately fell short. The discussion suggests that the belief in AI as a savior stems from Western culture's obsession with technological progress and a desire for a utopian future. However, the skepticism is expressed towards the actual potential of AI to save humanity.
The Disillusionment with Progress and the Allure of Gambling
The podcast discusses how society often views progress and wealth as the ultimate goal, leading many to chase the dream of becoming millionaires. However, it highlights that people are easily swayed and will believe what they want to believe, even in the face of nonsense. This is exemplified by individuals buying into ideologies like Marxism or the belief in progress, despite evidence of regression. The addictive nature of gambling is also discussed as a way people attempt to achieve their desires.
The Cycle of Consciousness and the Illusion of Individualism
The podcast explores the concept of cycles of consciousness and the difference between individualism and individualization. It notes that individuals often mistake empirical choices, such as consumer preferences, for true individualization, which ultimately bolsters the false ego. It questions whether the prevalence of abstract beliefs in modern society hinders true individualization and possibilities for growth. The podcast emphasizes that this detachment from spirituality and immersion in mental chatter is not a recent phenomenon, but rather a recurring pattern throughout history.
This episode I'm joined once again by writer and occultist John Michael Greer, to discuss collapse, history, consciousness, cyclicity, and the work of Spengler and Toynbee.
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