The Remnant with Jonah Goldberg The (Second) Great Leap Forward | Interview: Dan Wang
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Sep 18, 2025 
In this engaging conversation, Dan Wang, author of *Breakneck: China's Quest to Engineer the Future*, shares insights from his years in China, focusing on its unique engineering mindset. He delves into how the 'engineering state' contrasts with the U.S. legal framework and reveals the societal implications of China's Zero COVID policies during the pandemic. Dan also evaluates Deng Xiaoping's legacy and discusses the significant differences in development paths between China and India, along with strategies for U.S.-China relations.
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Engineering State Explains China's Approach
- Dan Wang frames China as an "engineering state" that treats infrastructure, economy, and society as engineering projects.
- This explains large-scale building capacity and a tendency to apply technical fixes to social problems.
Firsthand Account Of Zero COVID's Three Acts
- Wang lived through China's three acts of zero COVID, from early containment to the Shanghai Omicron lockdown and final abrupt abandonment.
- He describes centralized quarantine, massive testing, then a ten-week Shanghai lockdown that collapsed into widespread infection.
Limits Of Engineering Fixes On Omicron
- The engineering state's tools worked early but failed against Omicron's transmissibility and logistical complexity.
- The result was extreme lockdown misery, protests, and a sudden policy reversal when enforcement became untenable.
