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The Seen and the Unseen - hosted by Amit Varma
Ep 385: Vinayak Calling Vinayak
Jun 10, 2024
Historian Vinayak Chaturvedi discusses Hindutva's history, complexities, and controversies with host Amit Varma. They explore Savarkar's legacy, Gandhi's influence, and the evolving concept of Hindutva beyond Hinduism. From academic challenges to personal anecdotes, they shed light on the importance of understanding historical behaviors and identity politics in shaping modern India.
04:38:36
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Quick takeaways
- Hindutva's grassroots evolution challenges conventional narratives on political agency and mobilization in India.
- Savarkar's ideological shifts from unity to division were influenced by harsh experiences and historical contingencies.
- Savarkar's complex intellectual identity reflects personal encounters, historical contexts, and ideological influences.
- Personal experiences shape Savarkar's dynamic ideological evolution, responding to changing circumstances and convictions.
- Vinayak Chaturvedi's historical exploration highlights the interplay of archives, imagination, and nuanced perspectives in research.
- Academic challenges, mentorship impact, and societal narratives inform holistic approaches to historical interpretations.
Deep dives
Personal Experiences Shape Perspectives on Indian History
The podcast delves into personal experiences that shape one's perspectives on Indian history. Moving across different countries and cultures allows for a nuanced understanding of identity. The speaker shares insights on how upbringing and family history influence academic pursuits and historical explorations.
Exploring the Role of Archives and Historical Imagination
The significance of archives and historical imagination in research is highlighted. Drawing inspiration from historian Carlo Ginsburg, the speaker emphasizes the importance of imaginative engagement while exploring historical materials. The discussion underscores the aliveness and dynamic nature of history through personal connections and different perspectives.
Challenges in Academia: Neoliberal Pressures and Shifts in Publishing
The summary addresses the challenges in academia, such as neoliberal pressures and shifts in publishing. It points out the impact of administrative changes on academic freedom and the academic process. The evolving landscape of higher education is explored, including the push for more administrative roles and limitations on academic exploration.
Balancing Research and Administrative Demands in Academia
The summary touches on the balance between research and administrative demands in academia. It reflects on the pressures faced by academics, including the quest for tenure, teaching responsibilities, and administrative requirements. The narrative delves into the changing roles and expectations placed on faculty members in today's academic environments.
The Dynamics of Generational Shift and Professional Pressures
There is a generational shift in academia, with rising professional pressures and institutional challenges. The dwindling number of tenure positions and the rise of gig employment are transforming the academic landscape. Academic pressures extend to limitations in publishing long books, exemplifying the changing environment.
Impactful Mentorship and Intellectual Transformation
Mentorship plays a vital role in intellectual and ethical development. The mentor discussed in the podcast drives intellectual curiosity and rigorous analysis while encouraging individuality. The mentor fosters a culture of continuous learning through engaging discussions and challenges, shaping a holistic approach to historical interpretation.
Exploring Peasant Pass Project and its Sociopolitical Ramifications
The 'Peasant Pass' project delves into the historical interplay of agrarian capitalism, marginalization, and political agency among peasant communities. It uncovers narratives of resistance, criminalization, and the intersection of caste and class dynamics. Through deep archival research, the project highlights the complex societal structures and political shifts impacting marginalized groups in Gujarat.
Discussion on Hindutva as a Bottom-Up Movement
Hindutva in India is analyzed as a grassroots movement rather than a top-down creation. The evolution of Hindutva ideologies, participation in social activities, and manipulation of marginalized groups are explored. The discourse presents a nuanced perspective on the emergence and influence of Hindutva within Indian society, challenging conventional narratives around political agency and mobilization.
The Evolution of Savarkar's Views on Unity and Division
Initially, Savarkar expressed ideas of unity between Hindus and Muslims, emphasizing the need for cooperation and camaraderie against external threats. In his earlier writings, he highlighted the brothership between Hindus and Muslims due to their shared heritage as children of India. However, a significant shift occurred after his time in the Andaman Islands, where he experienced intense torture, influencing a dramatic change in his perspective. Subsequently, he evolved into a staunch critic of Muslims, fostering an anti-Muslim stance that became a cornerstone of his Hindutva ideology.
The Interpretation of Contingency in Savarkar's Ideological Transformations
The concept of contingency plays a pivotal role in understanding Savarkar's ideological transformations. His shift from advocating unity to promoting division can be seen as influenced by the harsh experiences he faced in captivity. Contingent events, such as torture and exposure to certain environments, likely contributed to reshaping his views. The prison conditions, the brutality endured at the hands of Pathans, and the broader historical context of the time may have served as catalysts for his ideological evolution.
The Impact of Savarkar's Philosophical Development on his Intellectual Identity
Regarding Savarkar's intellectual identity, his philosophical development and ideational inconsistencies pose intriguing questions. While some perceive his writings as incoherent or lacking depth, others view him as a significant figure in shaping Hindutva ideology. His blend of historical insights, philosophical musings, and narrative constructions suggest a complex intellectual subjectivity. This duality underscores the interplay between personal experiences, historical contingencies, and ideological influences shaping Savarkar's intellectual trajectory.
Examining the Intersection of Personal Experience and Political Evolution in Savarkar's Narrative
The intersection of personal experience and political evolution in Savarkar's narrative offers a nuanced understanding of his shifts in perspective over time. From advocating for Hindu-Muslim unity to embracing a strident anti-Muslim stance, his journey reflects a dynamic ideological transformation influenced by historical events and individual encounters. By contextualizing Savarkar's evolution within the broader landscape of colonial experiences, torturous confinement, and evolving social dynamics, his ideological shifts can be seen as responses to changing circumstances and personal convictions.
Music Recommendation
Recently, I have been enjoying electronica and house music by DJs such as Ben Bomer, Resident, Sultan and Shepherd, and Nora En Pure. I also attended a U2 concert at The Sphere in Las Vegas, which provided a visually stunning experience, changing the way I perceive live music.
Film Recommendation
I highly recommend Jonathan Glazer's 'The Zone of Interest' for its powerful and disturbing portrayal. The film delves into the banality of evil and challenges the dehumanization of perpetrators. The visual impact and thematic depth make this movie a lasting cinematic experience.
Book and Film Appreciation
Carl Ove Knausgaard's 'My Struggle' series has left a deep impact with its unique writing style and meditative exploration. Korean cinema, including films like 'Oldboy,' 'Burning,' 'Memories of Murder,' 'Parasite,' 'Return to Busan,' and 'Past Lives,' has captivated me with its profound narratives and humor. Additionally, Hirokazu Kore-eda's film 'Shoplifters' and 'Monster' showcase masterful storytelling and emotional depth.
13.
Exploring the Historical and Philosophical Dimensions of Hindutva and Savarkar
31min
14.
Analyzing Historical Analysis Methodologies and Influences on Gandhi and Savarkar
11min
19.
Exploring the History and Evolution of Tennis through Imperialism and Player Styles
15min
To understand modern India, we must understand the history of Hindutva -- and we must wrestle with Savarkar. Vinayak Chaturvedi joins Amit Varma in episode 385 of The Seen and the Unseen to discuss his life and work as a historian -- and the importance of history in shaping the present moment. (FOR FULL LINKED SHOW NOTES, GO TO SEENUNSEEN.IN.) (This episode was recorded in March, 2024.) Also check out: 1. Vinayak Chaturvedi at UC Irvine and Amazon. 2. Hindutva and Violence: VD Savarkar and the Politics of History -- Vinayak Chaturvedi. 3. Peasant Pasts – History and Memory in Western India -- Vinayak Chaturvedi. 4. Imaginary Homelands -- Salman Rushdie. 5. The Road and No Country for Old Men -- Cormac McCarthy. 6. No Country for Old Men -- Joel and Ethan Coen. 7. Wanderers, Kings, Merchants: The Story of India through Its Languages — Peggy Mohan. 8. Understanding India Through Its Languages — Episode 232 of The Seen and the Unseen (w Peggy Mohan). 9. Partha Chatterjee on Amazon, Wikipedia and Columbia University. 10. The Egg -- Andy Weir. 11. Deepak VS and the Man Behind His Face -- Episode 373 of The Seen and the Unseen. 12. The Incredible Insights of Timur Kuran -- Episode 349 of The Seen and the Unseen. 13. Private Truths, Public Lies — Timur Kuran. 14. The Long Divergence — Timur Kuran. 15. Some plagiarism complaints against Claudine Gay: 1, 2, 3, 4. 16. The Exquisite Irony of Claudine Gay's Downfall -- Glenn Loury with John McWhorter. 17. Why Did Harvard Cancel Its Best Black Professor? -- Documentary by Rob Montz on the destruction of Roland Fryer. 18. “A White Male Would Probably Already Be Gone” -- Carol Swain interviewed by Christopher Rufo. 19. How one hearing brought down two Ivy League presidents -- Sareen Habeshian. 20. Carlo Ginzburg and Christopher Bayly. 21. The Birth of the Modern World -- CA Bayly. 22. Recovering Liberties: Indian Thought in the Age of Liberalism and Empire -- CA Bayly. 23. The Indian Ideology -- Perry Anderson. 24. Event, Metaphor, Memory : Chauri Chaura -- Shahid Amin. 25. Peasant Intellectuals: Anthropology and History in Tanzania -- Steven Feierman. 26. Elementary Aspects of Peasant Insurgency in Colonial India -- Ranajit Guha. 27. Maps Are Magic -- Episode 44 of Everything is Everything. 28. On Exactitude in Science — Jorge Luis Borges. 29. Rulers, Townsmen and Bazaars -- CA Bayly. 30. The Cheese and the Worms -- Carlo Ginzburg. 31. From Peasant Pasts to Hindutva Futures? -- Vinayak Chaturvedi. 32. Gita Press and the Making of Hindu India — Akshaya Mukul. 33. The Gita Press and Hindu Nationalism — Episode 139 of The Seen and the Unseen (w Akshaya Mukul). 34. The Life and Times of Vir Sanghvi -- Episode 236 of The Seen and the Unseen. 35. A Rude Life — Vir Sanghvi. 36. The BJP Before Modi — Episode 202 of The Seen and the Unseen (w Vinay Sitapati). 37. The Importance of the 1991 Reforms — Episode 237 of The Seen and the Unseen (w Shruti Rajagopalan and Ajay Shah). 38. Essentials Of Hindutva -- VD Savarkar. 39. Farewell Waltz -- Milan Kundera. 40. A Zone of Engagement -- Perry Anderson. 41. Spectrum: From Right to Left in the World of Ideas -- Perry Anderson. 42. BR Ambedkar's interview on BBC from 1955. 43. Hindutva before Hindutva: Selected Writings and Discourses of Chandranath Basu in Translation -- Edited by Amiya Sen. 44. The Ferment of Our Founders — Episode 272 of The Seen and the Unseen (w Shruti Kapila). 45. The Many Shades of George Fernandes -- Episode 327 of The Seen and the Unseen. 46. The Life and Times of George Fernandes — Rahul Ramagundam. 47. Hind Swaraj — MK Gandhi. 48. Annihilation of Caste — BR Ambedkar. 49. Understanding Gandhi: Part 1: Mohandas — Episode 104 of The Seen and the Unseen (w Ram Guha). 50. Understanding Gandhi: Part 2: Mahatma — Episode 105 of The Seen and the Unseen (w Ram Guha). 51. The Indian War of Independence: 1857 -- VD Savarkar. 52. Savarkar: The True Story of the Father of Hindutva -- Vaibhav Purandare. 53. The Populist Playbook -- Episode 42 of Everything is Everything. 54. The Intellectual Foundations of Hindutva — Episode 115 of The Seen and the Unseen (w Aakar Patel). 55. Hindu-Padpaadshahi (Hindi Edition) -- VD Savarkar. 56. Veer Savarkar -- Dhananjay Keer. 57. GS Sardesai, VK Rajwade and Jadunath Sarkar. 58. The Collected Works of MK Gandhi and BR Ambedkar. 59. Swapna Liddle and the Many Shades of Delhi — Episode 367 of The Seen and the Unseen. 60. Episodes of the Seen and the Unseen with Srinath Raghavan: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5. 61. Episodes of the Seen and the Unseen with Manu Pillai: 1, 2, 3, 4. 62. Episodes of the Seen and the Unseen with Ramachandra Guha: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6. 63. Episodes of The Seen and the Unseen with Ira Mukhoty, Parvati Sharma and Rana Safvi. 64. John McEnroe plus Anyone -- Edward Said. 65. Distinction: A Social Critique of the Judgement of Taste -- Pierre Bourdieu. 66. Lendl, Becker, McEnroe, & Wilander interviewed in the Tennis Legends Podcast. 67. Ben Böhmer, Sultan+Shepard, Nora En Pure, U2 and New Order on Spotify. 68. The Zone of Interest -- Jonathan Glazer. 69. Oldboy -- Park Chan-wook. 70. Burning -- Lee Chang-dong. 71. Memories of Murder -- Bong Joon-ho. 72. Return to Seoul -- Davy Chou. 73. Past Lives -- Celine Song. 74. Monster -- Kore-eda Hirokazu. 75. The Wind From Far Away -- Amit Varma (on Monster among other things). 76. Shoplifters -- Hirokazu Kore-eda. 77. Nobody Knows -- Hirokazu Kore-eda. 78. Broker -- Hirokazu Kore-eda. 79. A Death in the Family -- Book 1 of Karl Ove Knausgaard's A Struggle. 80. In Search Of Lost Time -- Marcel Proust. 81. My Saga -- Karl Ove Knausgaard's essay for NYT. Amit’s newsletter is active again. Subscribe right away to The India Uncut Newsletter! It’s free! Amit Varma and Ajay Shah have launched a new video podcast. Check out Everything is Everything on YouTube. Check out Amit’s online course, The Art of Clear Writing. Episode art: ‘The Historian’ by Simahina.
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Discover
highlights
Listen to the best highlights from the podcasts you love and dive into the full episode