John sits down with Cambridge University Associate Professor James Orr to discuss multiculturalism, religion, and the therapeutic nature of modern society. He contends that religious communities are ‘bunkers’ in the modern world, acting as places of refuge from culture. Moreover, Dr. Orr addresses his controversial tweet, ‘import the Arab world, become the Arab world’, unpacking the complexities of multiculturalism. He also discusses how our increasingly therapeutic culture has had serious ramifications on our understanding of suffering, and on our relationship to the law and to the state.