12. Why God Allows Suffering and Our Bend Toward Isolation with Dr. Eleonore Stump & John Ortberg
Nov 5, 2024
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Dr. Eleonore Stump, a professor of philosophy at St. Louis University and author of "Wandering in Darkness," engages in a profound discussion about the nature of suffering and its implications for faith. They explore the paradox of willed loneliness, delving into the fear of vulnerability. The conversation touches on the moral dimensions of suffering and how personal relationships enhance our understanding of divine love. Stump emphasizes the transformative potential of suffering, positioning it as a key to spiritual fulfillment.
Suffering serves a profound purpose, often rooted in human moral failings, challenging our understanding of a benevolent God.
Willed loneliness reflects an internal struggle, where the desire for connection is hindered by fear and self-imposed barriers.
Deep dives
The Significance of Suffering
Suffering is a profound challenge that many struggle with, particularly in relation to faith in a benevolent God. The discussion presents suffering as an inherent part of human existence, often leading to questions about God's rationality if He allows such pain. The conversation highlights the distinction between suffering caused by human actions and natural suffering, suggesting that most suffering has roots in human moral failings. This underscores a deeper reflection on the nature of suffering as potentially serving a purpose, drawing on examples from history to illustrate the pervasive and sometimes systemic nature of human-inflicted pain.
Different Types of Knowledge
The discourse emphasizes two forms of knowledge: propositional knowledge, which is abstract and factual, and second-person knowledge, which is relational and experiential. Using the biblical story of Joseph and his brothers, it illustrates how true understanding often comes from personal connection rather than mere recognition of facts. This concept extends to knowing God, whereby establishing a relationship is paramount, rather than simply believing in His existence. This perspective invites individuals grappling with suffering to approach their faith as a relational journey, fostering intimacy with the divine.
Willed Loneliness and the Human Condition
Willed loneliness describes a state where individuals, despite desiring connection, create barriers to intimacy with others out of fear, shame, or guilt. This internal conflict results in a divided self that yearns for love while simultaneously resisting vulnerability. The conversation highlights that these self-imposed barriers create a significant struggle within individuals, making them hesitate to engage deeply with others. The psychological complexity of willingly choosing loneliness encapsulates the challenge many face in their pursuit of meaningful relationships and spiritual fulfillment.
Divine Love and Suffering
The nature of divine love is explored, particularly in the context of God's relationship with humanity amid suffering. It suggests that true love encompasses seeking the good of others, even when it entails experiencing pain or wrath towards wrongdoing. This understanding positions God's allowance of suffering not as a sign of neglect but as part of a loving commitment to protect humanity from moral evils. Ultimately, the conversation leads to a reassurance that individuals are significant to God, emphasizing that their struggles are part of a larger divine narrative.
Purpose in Pain | Join us in welcoming guest Eleanor Stump 👏
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Become New is here to help you grow spiritually one day at a time.
📧 Subscribe for daily emails with these videos and accompanying thoughts: https://bit.ly/46AZ0rN 🙏🏻 Need prayer? Text us at 855-888-0444, we would love to pray for you! 🙌🏻 Interested in content for leaders? Subscribe to Become New for Leaders: https://bit.ly/3PH4FWn
Be sure to join our Facebook Group (link below) to continue the conversation and don't forget to subscribe to our YouTube channel BecomeNew.Me and say hello 👋 in the comments. And make sure you tap the bell icon 🔔 to be notified when the next episode releases.
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