Is Whiteness Killing Us? with Dr. Jonathan Metzl

May 19, 2023

Dr. Jonathan Metzl, psychiatrist and author, discusses how GOP policies hurt the life expectancy of white Americans and argues it stems from racial resentment. They delve into the impact of budget cuts on education, the consequences of gun policy, and the varying effects of COVID policy on school closures. They also reflect on the importance of common infrastructure for fostering cooperation among racial backgrounds.

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Introduction

00:00 • 3min

Career Trajectory and Academic Pursuits in Medicine, Social Science, and Politics

03:26 • 2min

The Impact of GOP Policies on White Health Outcomes

05:08 • 12min

Attitudes towards Border Control and Racial Resentment

17:37 • 3min

Building Common Infrastructure for Collaboration and Cooperation

20:56 • 11min

Discussion on GOP policy, book reception, and the impact of budget cuts on education

31:29 • 5min

COVID Policy and School Closures

36:55 • 6min

Gun Policy and the Case for Stronger Gun Control Measures

42:35 • 23min

My guest today is Dr. Jonathan Metzl. Jonathan is a psychiatrist and author and a professor of sociology at Vanderbilt University. He's written several books including "The Protest Psychosis", "Prozac on the Couch", "Against Health" and the topic of today's conversation, "Dying of Whiteness: How the Politics of Racial Resentment Is Killing America's Heartland", which received the Robert F. Kennedy award for nonfiction.

In "Dying of Whiteness", Jonathan argues that GOP policies like cutting education funds, cutting taxes, opposing Obamacare, and opposing gun control are hurting the life expectancy of America's white population. In other words, hurting the very people who support these policies most. He also argues that support for these policies policies stems from racial resentment, a feeling of resentment towards minorities among white people. As you'll hear in the discussion, I don't agree that whiteness and racial resentment are the best explanations for why the median Republican supports these policies. And I also think that concepts like "whiteness", and "blackness" are toxic. I think people understandably hear these words as attacks on their racial identities, which they can't control. And so I think we should just rid the discourse of these words. Jonathan obviously disagrees and we talk about that in the episode.

That said, there are some smaller claims I agreed with Jonathan like the fact that the easy availability of guns in this country has made suicide easier for people, especially for the very population that opposes gun control laws. Some of his other claims about the effect of cutting school budgets on life expectancy, I found to be poorly supported. And you'll hear me press him on that towards the middle of the episode. In general, I found that there was some distance between the tone of his book and the positions he was willing to defend in the room. And I don't know exactly how to handle situations like that, as an interviewer. Do I just talk to the person I'm meeting in the room? Or do I hold people accountable to the precise claims that they made in the book? I don't really know. Anyway, I'm grateful to Jonathan for coming on the podcast and I hope you all enjoy the conversation as much as I did.

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