Political theorist Samuel Goldman joins the hosts to discuss his book 'After Nationalism'. Topics include his punk-rocker past, Strauss' influence on his thinking, failures of national symbols, implications for U.S. history teaching, and alternatives to nationalism.
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Quick takeaways
American national identities evolved through covenant, crucible, and creed but faced limitations in fostering unified identity.
Benign nationalism appears appealing in theory but struggles in practical applications, exposing challenges in translating ideals.
Critics highlight the discrepancy between abstract ideals and tangible implementation in advocating for benign nationalism.
Deep dives
Challenging Traditional American National Identities
American national identities have evolved through the lenses of covenant, crucible, and creed. The Covenant model, rooted in colonial New England, evolved into a sacred community tied to God and divine purpose, but its narrow Anglo-Protestant focus lacked scalability. The Crucible concept aimed at cultural fusion through assimilation and biological merging, yet faced exclusion challenges due to racial considerations. The Creed perspective emphasized political principles over ethnic unity, fostering post-World War II nationalism but resulted in interpretational disputes, showing the limitations of each symbol in fostering a unified American identity.
Limits of Benign Nationalism in Current Discourses
The discourse surrounding benign nationalism often appears abstract and benign, emphasizing loyalty and attachment to one's country. While appealing in theory, delving into specifics reveals its impotence when faced with practical applications and historical contexts. The vagueness of benign nationalism fosters debate as proponents struggle to translate abstract principles into concrete actions, exposing the inherent challenges in applying such ideals to real-world scenarios.
Critiquing Abstract vs. Applied Nationalism Advocacy
While the theoretical foundations of benign nationalism seem agreeable at a generic level, the practical application faces criticism and challenges when confronted by historical injustices and exclusionary practices. Advocates of benign nationalism often grapple with translating abstract principles into actionable policies and fail to address the brutal historical means previously employed in pursuing nationalist goals. The discrepancy between abstract ideals and tangible implementation underscores the complexities of advocating for benign nationalism in contemporary discourse.
Criticism of Creedal Nationalism and the Impact of War on National Unity
Critics of the book suggest that the search for national symbols is not necessarily xenophobic or racist, emphasizing the need to consider those who reject this premise. The podcast delves into the significance of war in promoting national unity, highlighting its role in consolidating nation-states and fostering shared solidarity, albeit with both positive and negative consequences. It explores how war historically influences the rise of creedal nationalism, seen particularly during wartime to unite diverse populations under common ideals.
Importance of Storytelling in Shaping Collective Identity and Education Curriculum
The discussion shifts towards the role of creative arts and storytelling in shaping national identity, suggesting that narrative techniques can enhance political and cultural cohesion. It critiques didactic approaches in educational debates, advocating for diverse narratives that reflect the multiplicity of American history and foster critical thinking. The episode concludes with a call to prioritize institutions that facilitate constructive dialogue and dissent, proposing a shift towards fostering shared experiences and pluralism for a more nuanced understanding of national identity.
In this episode, Matt and Sam are joined by political theorist and conservative intellectual Samuel Goldman—a very sensible and polite "enemy"—to discuss his brilliant new book, After Nationalism. Topics include: Goldman's punk-rocker past; the influence of Leo Strauss on his thinking; historical attempts to provide Americans with a coherent, enduring symbol of national identity; why these symbols have failed; what all this means for debates about teaching U.S. history; and what alternatives to nationalism its critics can offer.