What is Christian Nationalism, and what is it not? With Philip S. Gorski, author of "The Flag and the Cross"

The topic of Christian nationalism has been much in the news recently. Republican politicians like Lauren Boebert of Colorado and Marjorie Taylor Green of Georgia both have claimed the term as their own, and Boebert in particular has loudly proclaimed that she does not believe in the separation of church and state. “I’m tired of this separation of church and state junk,” she said. “The church is supposed to direct the government; the government is not supposed to direct the church.”

Perhaps the most aggressive Christian nationalist, despite his protestations about the term, is Pennsylvania's Doug Mastriano, a state senator who is the Republican nominee for governor in that state. Listen to Mastriano's comments in a 2021 zoom call a week before the January 6 insurrection, in which he baptizes conspiracy theories and his political will to power in the language of spiritual righteousness.

That call was organized by a man named Jim Garlow, who is reportedly influential in something called the New Apostolic Reformation, which is a loosely connected network of men and women who call themselves apostles and prophets. These self-proclaimed divine emissaries claim that God speaks to them uniquely, and they claim authority over other people based on these grounds.

Here's another example of the growing fusion throughout the country between religion and politics, in a way that confuses the two as one and the same rather than understanding them as separate but enhanced by one another if cross-pollinated in healthy ways. This is audio of an event this past July 1 in Atlanta, Georgia, in which two major figures in the NAR -- Lance Wallnau and Dutch Sheets, along with two other men, Mario Murillo and Hank Kunnemman, according to Jennifer Cohn of the Bucks County Beacon -- lead an audience in a vow to take over the U.S. government and impose a theocracy.

Philip S. Gorski is an expert on Christian nationalism. He is the author of "The Flag and the Cross: White Christian Nationalism and the Threat to American Democracy," along with Samuel L. Perry, a professor at Oklahoma University. Gorski is a sociology professor at Yale University and is the author of American Babylon: Christianity and Democracy Before and After Trump and American Covenant: A History of Civil Religion from the Puritans to the Present.

Gorski has written this of Christian nationalism: it is "political idolatry dressed as religious orthodoxy."

We talk about the ways that sometimes the term is used imprecisely to condemn anyone who is a Christian, and I ask him to help us explain the ways that political extremism, especially the growing willingness to discard democracy and pursue authoritarianism, can be motivated by this belief system.

You can also check out David French's interview with Paul D. Miller about this topic here.

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