A PALESTINIAN AND AN ISRAELI FATHER: “We must all stop being victims; victimhood causes the violence!”

Apr 4, 2024

In this compelling discussion, Bassam Aramin, a Palestinian peace activist, and Rami Elhanan, an Israeli peace activist, share their transformative journeys shaped by tragic losses. Both fathers, who lost daughters in the conflict, emphasize that victimhood perpetuates violence. They argue for empathy and understanding, challenging divisive narratives. Bassam's study of the Holocaust while imprisoned profoundly impacts their dialogue, while Rami highlights the urgency of breaking free from entrenched identities. Together, they convey a powerful message of reconciliation and hope.

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Intro

00:00 • 4min

Voices from the West Bank: Struggles and Understanding

04:29 • 12min

Hearts United: A Journey from Grief to Healing

15:59 • 27min

The Importance of Speaking Out Against Injustice

43:19 • 2min

Reflections on Identity, Oppression, and the Misuse of Antisemitism

45:06 • 2min

Understanding Humanity Amidst Conflict

47:08 • 6min

Bassam Aramin and Rami Elhanan (peace activists with Parent’s Circle) are the two protagonists from Colum McCann’s Booker-Prize-longlisted book Apeirogon. Both lost their daughters to the conflict, ten years apart. Yet in spite of – or because of - this horror they became dedicated friends, or “brothers”, committed to opposing the Israeli occupation of Palestine and working with “the enemy” via Parent’s Circle, a peace group set up for parents from “both sides” who’ve lost a child.

I spoke to Bassam and Rami on day #169 in the conflict and they’d just come from seeing the Pope. We cover how Bassam decided to study the Holocaust while imprisoned in an Israeli jail as a teenager for seven years, why Israelis are trapped by their victimhood and how we’ve all been locked into seeing this conflict as a football game of two sides.

This interview is a chapter in an incredible story that involves a big-time Hollywood actor, who reached out to me while I was camping in remote Western Australia, a secondhand book find, a six-way email chain and an incredible love that reaches across history, walls and global fragmentation.

NOTE: I will cover the very intersecting story of how we (the dads, Colum, the actor and I met) in the next episode.

SHOW NOTES

Read Apeirogon by Colom Mcann
Learn about Parent’s Circle and donate here.
If you want a bit of extra background to this whole story, I write about it here on Substack.
I mention Naomi Klein’s work on the role of victimhood. A good starting point is this podcast interview with On the Nose.
Naomi has also released two chapters from her latest book Doppelgänger for free online that cover her thesis super well.

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