The Darkest Dark

144 snips

Jan 17, 2025

Sönke Johnsen, a biologist at Duke University, specializes in ultra-black animals. He takes listeners on a journey into the science behind the darkest creatures on Earth, revealing how certain fish and butterflies achieve their deep black hues through unique structural adaptations. Johnsen discusses the fascinating interplay between darkness and bioluminescence, exploring survival strategies of deep-sea life. The conversation also touches on the implications of this research for engineering, merging biology with advancements in material science.

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ANECDOTE

Darkness at Sea

Sönke Johnsen describes the unique experience of darkness at sea, beyond ship lights.
He mentions a primal fear and the feeling of darkness asking something of him.

ANECDOTE

Life at Sea

Sönke Johnsen details the challenging environment of working on a research vessel.
He mentions cramped quarters, pervasive diesel smell, and lack of personal choice.

INSIGHT

Deep Sea Light and Dark

Deep-sea creatures use bioluminescence in a predator-prey relationship, creating a need for camouflage.
The darkness in the deep sea isn't empty but full of light-based interactions.

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We fall down the looking glass with Sönke Johnsen, a biologist who finds himself staring at one of the darkest things on the planet. So dark, it’s almost like he’s holding a blackhole in his hands. On his quest to understand how something could possibly be that black, we enter worlds of towering microscopic forests, where gold becomes black, the deep sea meets the moon, and places that are empty suddenly become full.

Corrections/Clarifications:
In this episode, dragonfish are described as having teeth that slide back into their skull; that is the fangtooth fish, not the dragonfish. Though both can be ultra-black.

The fishes described are the darkest things on the planet, but there are some other animals that are equally as dark, including butterflies, wasps, and birds.

Vantablack is no longer the blackest man-made material

EPISODE CREDITS:

Hosted by - Molly Webster
Reported by - Molly Webster
Produced by - Rebecca Laks, Pat Walters, Molly Webster
with help from - Becca Bressler
Original music from - Vetle Nærø
with mixing help from -Jeremy Bloom
Fact-checking by - Natalie A. Middleton
and Edited by - Pat Walters
Guest - Sönke Johnsen

EPISODE CITATIONS:
Articles -
Sönke Johnsen’s research paper on ultra-black in the wings of butterflies

A paper by Sönke Johnsen that describes how structure can change color, by showing how clear quartz balls can — when in a random pile — go from clear, to very blue, to white, depending on the size of the individual balls.

Music -
This episode kicked-off with some music by Norwegian pianist Vetle Nærø, check him out online

Videos -
Vantablack, a video about the look and design of the world’s OG darkest man-made substance (get ready to be wowed), and a new material saying it’s darker than Vanta.

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Leadership support for Radiolab’s science programming is provided by the Gordon and Betty Moore Foundation, Science Sandbox, a Simons Foundation Initiative, and the John Templeton Foundation. Foundational support for Radiolab was provided by the Alfred P. Sloan Foundation.