In this episode, Claire Ohlenschlager, an avid doodler, shares how she developed her sketchnoting practice, found a thriving sketchnoting community, and awakened her passion for teaching.

Sponsored by Concepts

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Running Order

• Intro
• Welcome
• Who is Claire?
• Origin Story
• Claire's current work
• Sponsor: Concepts
• Tips
• Tools
• Where to find Claire
• Outro

Links

Amazon affiliate links support the Sketchnote Army Podcast.

• Claire on Instagram
• Claire on LinkedIn
• Claire on Twitter
• Claire's Faces Wordpress
• Zentangle Method
• The Noun Project
• Lettering with Friends

Tools

Amazon affiliate links support the Sketchnote Army Podcast.

• Hobonichi A6 Techo Paper
• Talent Paper
• Usem Note Cards
• TWSBI Fountain pen
• Sailor Fountain Pen
• Platinum Pigmented Fountain Ink
• Artline Fineliners
• Caran d'Adche Coloured Pencil
• Pop up Pencil Case
• iPad
• Adobe Fresco
• Procreate

Tips

1. Practice, because with practice, you develop your way of visual thinking.
2. White spaces don't matter.
3. It's not really about the tools, so don't go around buying a whole set. First, try it out before you invest in lots of tools that you are not going to use.
4. Words will help you find the icons and the pictures. Metaphors will help sometimes.

Credits

• Producer: Alec Pulianas
• Shownotes and transcripts: Esther Odoro
• Theme music: Jon Schiedermayer

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Support the Podcast

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Episode Transcript

Mike Rohde: Hey everyone, it's Mike Rohde, and I'm here with Claire Ohlenschlanger. Claire, it's so good to have you on the show.

Claire Ohlenschlanger: Thank you for having me. It's a very honor.

MR: Well, I've been trying to get you on the show for a while, and just timing and other things haven't worked out, but we finally have you, and I'm excited. You're someone who's been involved in this community for a long time, and it's always good to hear the perspectives of people who have been in the community for a while.

And it might be interesting for us to chat a little bit about that in our discussion too, and see, how does the community remain the same and maybe how has the sketching community changed a little bit? Obviously, we have new people coming in all the time, so that changes the community, which I think is great. But before we get into that, let's first start and let us know who you are and what you do.

CO: Well, I'm Claire Ohlenschlanger. I live in the Netherlands in the Hague. A very small country. I work at the Rotterdam University of Applied Sciences, where I work at the Teacher Training College, languages department. I've been a teacher, I think this is my 34th year. Secondary education and now higher education.

MR: That's really cool.

CO: Yeah. I think it's the best job. It's hard work, but very rewarding.

MR: Oh, yeah. That's true.

CO: Yeah.

MR: I really admire teachers. The more that I teach, the more I admire teachers because I see how hard the work is. I enjoy it. It's really satisfying, but it's really hard work, and when you get a really good teacher and you see it, I appreciate it. I know how hard it is to do it well. So, thank you for doing all this great teaching for many years for many different people. I'm sure that people appreciate you for that.

CO: I think it's a very—it keeps me young. I was just saying that to my colleague because you work with young people, it kind of keeps me young, I feel, but it's very nice to see people grow and to help them progress and help them when they're kind of stuck. In the pandemic and the years after, a lot of kids have been stuck.

MR: Yeah.

CO: And so. It's extra challenging, but it's very rewarding at the moment. Very frustrating sometimes as well.

MR: I suspect. Yeah.

CO: Yeah.

MR: So, I'm really curious how—so we know that you're here, you've been teaching for a long time. You've moved all the way through secondary to higher education, but how did you begin? As a little girl, you know, on your own—you do sketchnoting and visualization, right? Probably in your work, but also personally. How did you get here? Starting as a little girl, were you drawing all the time? what's the story and how did you end up where you are?

CO: Well, I wasn't really drawing. I was always writing. So I was always making sure that I wrote in nice letters. And of course, I'm from pre-computer, so we had to do all the writing. And I also, as long as I can remember, I would always want to write with fountain pens and not with ballpoints or felt tip pens or maybe sometimes pencils. What I would also always like doing is add color to what I was doing so that what I wrote also looked nice. But not like we sketch these days, but I did spend a lot of time making things nice to read again.

I would also do a lot is doodle. I'm not a very good drawer but am an avid doodler. So Lots of my notebooks, I still have a lot of them, have all these little doodles all around what I wrote. Actually, when I started, I couldn't stand messy pages because I would always spend a lot of time on making it—that's what people always say, "How can you write things down straight away, so neatly." But I think that's from when I was very young. I've always been like that. I've never been a drawer. I've developed into a sketcher.

MR: Interesting.

CO: Very simple.

MR: Definitely an interesting perspective. Tell us a little bit more about that.

CO: How I came to sketching is I think somewhere around 2010 or so. You know, every so often you have a seven-year itch. And I think I was having a seven-year itch, and then I decided to go back to Uni to start studying again. So I went to do an educational master's. And as it happened, on one of the first evenings after class I was walking home and I passed our bookstore, and our bookstore had a workshop on mind mapping that was just about to start. So I figured I'd sit down.

And it was a very practical workshop. So we got a large piece of paper and some pens, or actually I probably had a pen. I always have pens in my bag, so I think I probably had the pens. And then he was telling us about how to mind map, and at the same time I was mind mapping. And that was actually my first-time taking notes of what I was hearing.

And that worked so well for me that everything I did in my master's, I started off mind mapping. I mind map everything I heard on my lectures, but also the books and the articles I read. And gradually I found myself needing pictures and visuals. And then of course, I started because I was intrigued by the fact that it was helping me so much to, you know, remember and to retain the information.

And while I was getting feedback, people telling me, "Oh, it looks so nice, and can I make a copy of it?" Et cetera. And so gradually, I found myself needing pictures. So I started looking into it, and that's how I came across your book. And then I thought that was really interesting. So then I looked into that, and then gradually I turned my mind maps into sketchnotes.

So actually, quite often when I sketchnote, it has the order of a mind map that works from the top to the bottom back up again. And I noticed that the mind maps, how I started this is, I can still find it in my notes. I use a lot of colors and a lot of arrows and what you would do in mind maps. I think it's probably originates from that.

When I did Uni, that was also when I was introduced to social media because I'd never even heard of social media. So I had to make a Twitter account to have a personal learning network and, you know, broaden that. So when I found your book, I started looking for you. And then of course I came across hashtags. And that way I got sucked into the community.

Today's Doodle, I think Sketchnotes in Real life or Today's Doodle in Real Life, that's how I met Rob, Rob Dimeo, who started off and showed me you could make sketches in actual pictures. In the meantime, I bought an iPad. So I was kind of playing around with that. And that's where I met a lot of the Sketchnote community.

And I was also intrigued by that because around that time, a lot of people my age were saying, "Oh, what are you doing on social media? Social media is scary. Lots of ugly things happen on social media." And I was just getting inspiration after inspiration. So that intrigued me as well. And then I started traveling. I like traveling.

Then I started thinking, well, I'll just ask who in this community lives in whichever city I was going to. And then I found out that you could also meet up with sketchnoters that you met on internet in real life. And they were actually very nice. And that's right.

Where I sometimes try to tell my friends that if you chat with each other and you have a common ground, like sketchnotes in our case, then eventually you also get to know people, you get to see their sense of humor, you see sense of humor in how people draw. Talking about something that you have in common also is binding. So meeting someone in real life then is as if you've known that person for a while.

MR: Yeah.

CO: That's what I really love about our community. It actually feels like I have friends all over the world. I've met some. You know, I've met you, I've met people at the International Sketchnote camps. I've met people outside of the camps, but in the cities, they live in, or shown people around the Hague here in the Netherlands. And you always have something to talk about. If you don't feel like talking, you always have something to sketch together.

That's how one thing grew to another, because at the same time I met McKayla. The McKayla Lewis in London, and somehow James Sorreta in Australia. And we started talking to each other and I started saying, good morning, and good evening, because of course, there's such a huge time difference on my way into work.

And that grew into me sketching, because what I always do on my way, on my commute is I also found myself—I have about a 40-minute commute to work by train, and there's a very small lapse, I think it's probably only about a minute, where we're kind of in internet digital no man's land and you don't have internet connection.

I honestly think it's only about 10 seconds. But I found myself every time I got into that area, and my phone would not connect, I'd get this kind of feeling stress. And then I thought, that's not really very healthy. So I started taking these little, I don't know whether you remember them when we were in Lisbon? I had these little Usem note cards.

MR: Yes.

CO: The size of the business card. And I started taking them to school, and I started drawing on those. That's how I got into drawing a doodle a day. I always kind of tend to go overboard. I think I did that for about five days—five years. I switched from the Usem cards to Hobonichi because that paper is fantastic.

MR: Beautiful. Yeah.

CO: Yeah. So I started sketching my morning, evening for Mackey and James, and I think I also did that for three years every single day. And that turned into a huge box of things that I couldn't never throw away. So that's when I switched to making them digitally because then you can have a digital cupboard.

And I did a couple of those with the community. So a couple of times I got to my 1000, or my, I don't know how many and then I thought, "Hey, how cool would it be if we could make one?" I think we even made something for you once.

MR: Yeah.

CO: I think we even drew you. I really love the way we can connect together. And I really love the idea that we can be all over the world and still be focused on doing the same thing and then make one thing together. That's very, very interesting. And I think it's very motivating. I get a lot of energy from that. So I've done a couple of those kind of projects. Yeah. We drew you in little kind of pixel boxes.

MR: That's right.

CO: I remember that now. Yeah. And then we made morning, evening together. And I had people from all over the world sending me. And of course, every time I did that, I regretted that I started it because there's always more work than you anticipate when you start off.

The idea is always fun, but actually getting it to work is—but then that's a good thing of working at the Uni full of people who understand digital things much better than I do. So I always have someone, a student just who can help me out with all those kind of things.

What also happened is, I think also those sketches, because I started drawing on those little, Usem papers, I'd go to conferences or talks or whatever, and then I'd wanted to sketch, and I usually only had those papers. And so, I'd have to sketch very small. And then obviously you can't use too many words. You need the little icons?

And then I'd give them. Afterwards I'd take a picture for myself, and then I'd give the cards to whoever it was that was presenting. I also sent a lot of my Usem cards all over the world. I'd make a little happy birthday card, and then I'd tell people, "Give me your address and I'll send it to you."

And then I'd get their email address, and I'd have to explain, "No, I mean, snail mail, and I'll send it to your home address." And not many people send you actual cards or anything written in the envelope with the stamp on it these days. So it brings me a lot of positive energy.

MR: And I think the people that you share with get positive energy too.

CO: Yeah. That's why I hope, yeah. That's why, I hope. And of course, you know, in Uni where I tried to explain—'cause all those mind maps I made during my master's, eventually I laminated them all and I put them together with a binder and they're always at the office.

And then every so often when I see kids studying in my hallway feeling slightly frustrated, I take out my binder and I show them and I tell them, "You know, this is also a way for you to retain and to also make it fun. And drawing it makes you remember."

You'll always remember, "Oh, yeah, I think it's probably in pink on the right-hand corner." And then you'll also remember, because you thought of an icon, the icon will trigger your memory and it really helps you remember. And yeah, quite a lot of my students try, not all of them persist, but quite a lot of them try and regularly I hear that it really helps them. So that's good.

MR: Even if, I would suspect if they still say, type notes, but maybe they use drawings as a support mechanism, that could even be a win as well, right?

CO: At the moment I don't teach that much anymore, but when I still did teach, I would actually tell them they had to have a notebook and they would have to take actual old school pen to paper notes. But I don't really like it

MR: How did they react to that? I think some have notes.

CO: Well, in the beginning, you know, when you start as a teacher, of course kids don't know you, but when you've been somewhere long enough, people already come in with their notebooks because they know.

MR: Yeah. Reputation.

CO: Yeah. And what also happens is it needs persistence. I remember one of my students a couple of years ago, and of course my students are already around 20 or so, so they're not very—they're still young, obviously, right?

MR: Yeah. Yeah.

CO: They're not really kids. And it took a lot of patience on my side and persistence. And then I think into the fourth week, he came to me and with a very proud facial expression, he showed me the notebook he had bought and the pen he had bought. And no, that's what he used. Then what I hope is that if they catch the hang of it, then it really helps them.

MR: It does seem, you know, I was talking with somebody else about that too, that when you teach any kind of thing, some people will incorporate it into their lives more than others. Some not at all, some quite a bit, and some people in between. So that's just the normal thing, I suppose.

CO: I don't think it matters because everyone has their own way, and what you have to do is at least give yourself the chance to find out what your way is, and not find yourself stuck in the computer because that's actually what they start off with. But to give yourself the chance to try out what works for you.

MR: Yeah, it's having an option, right? Presenting an option. And maybe that doesn't fit for everyone, but for some people it's perfect, right? So, if you'd never—

CO: And then it's up to—yeah, you can go.

MR: I was gonna say, if you'd never been exposed to it, you wouldn't know if it works, right?

CO: Yeah. That's what I was about to say. I think it's up to you as the teacher to show the different ways that they can actually try to study. Sometimes you tend to get stuck into your own way, into what works for you. But I think as a teacher, you're obliged to show them different ways because you have different kids there.

MR: Yep.

CO: Yep.

MR: An interesting side note that I hadn't planned on, but I'm curious about is, and I have a theory around it is young people, at least that I encounter, seem to have a fascination with old analog things, record players. My son bought himself a turntable and he's buying records. I have a nephew who's really into Polaroid cameras. So, being on a college campus, do you sense any of this sort of an attraction toward analog things?

And my theory is that because, you know, our generation, we grew up with all analogs. So digital was really interesting to us 'cause it was a new thing. But I think about this generation sort of steeped in digital stuff, that analog is now the fascinating thing. And so, that becomes attractive for them. Can you speak to that at all?

CO: Yeah. I think I noticed that as well. What I also noticed at the moment here in the Netherlands there's this movement that kids aren't allowed to take their mobile phones to school, or at least not use them. What we're hearing back is the kids admitting that it gives them peace not to work with their mobile and not to have it in the vicinity. And that they're finally talking to their friends again and actually also starting to pick up books.

I mean, it's still very early, but it's quite interesting to hear youngster saying these things because, you know initially when they started, of course, they were all stressed out that they would be shut outta the world as they know it. And so, it's actually very interesting to hear youngster saying that.

MR: Interesting.

CO: Yeah, it's interesting. What I do know is that in education, people are promoting taking notes again with pen and paper more so than they've been doing in the past decades, I think. So I think that's a good sign because research shows that that's the best way to remember and to learn and to study. I'm a language teacher, in COVID time, of course everything was digital because we were teaching through computers. And what happened was that when the kids came back, they couldn't write anymore.

So they were having a lot of difficulty actually writing their essays because they didn't have the time. And of course, always in a test you have a set time and they weren't used to writing and then having to correct and having to rewrite the whole thing again. Because of course, obviously on the computer, you can copy paste or throw away or add. So that was also very interesting how quickly you also forget.

MR: Yeah. It's a lot of practice.

CO: You need the practice. So one of the tips I would give is practice, practice, practice. It's not about doing it right straight away. It's copy that makes sure to develop your own style.

MR: Interesting.

CO: Yeah. I have my stick figure and my stick figure is my stick figure. I think people recognize that it's mine, but it's a stick figure. So it's not really anything very special except my own style is in it for you to recognize it. That's why sometimes you have all these companies that do sketchnotes, and what you see is a lot of the same thing.

So here, you know, you have a lot of stick figure for visual note taking, and it's very difficult to see the style of the person who wrote it because it's set in standards of how you draw the stick figures, the coloring, et cetera. And I think in my opinion, the best thing is to do is to develop your own style because the moment it's your own, it's more authentic and more real.

MR: Yeah. It's part of you. It's an extension of you.

CO: It's part of you. Yeah. It's like you do your pizza or your Packers or whatever you do, you recognize your style is the same, the approach is the same. You know instantly which of you drew the sketch that you're looking at.

MR: Yeah. That's pretty fascinating.

CO: Yeah. It's like handwriting, but then in sketches.

MR: Yeah. It's extended.

CO: Yeah.

MR: So you mentioned doing Morning and Evening. It sounds like you're not doing that now, or maybe you are, but digitally is there a project that you're working on right now that you would like to share and talk about?

CO: No. Well, the little drawings I do, they help me relax. What I notice at the moment is I'm doing a lot of Zentangle things because I'm extremely busy at my work. And it really helps me unwind at the end of the day. It helps me focus on something completely different and it really relaxes me before I go to sleep so that I don't go to sleep with all these hectic work-related thoughts on my mind.

MR: Yeah. Yeah.

CO: I'm busy. I've got another project going with all kinds of different Zentangles. So it's something completely different. And I think the interest is, you know, when I contemplate on what I do is I'm not a specialist in anything. I tend to do lots of different things. I always like projects and I try to look at different things to do. So I'm an extremely creative person in a huge variety of creativity.

MR: Interesting.

CO: I do a lot of picking up, you know, Mackey would say rubbish. Picking up rubbish from the ground and then I make something. I make a little figurine from that. In COVID time, what kept me going was going on walks. So I'd pretend to go to work at the beginning of the day and pretend to go home at the end of the day.

And then I take pictures and that developed into all these pictures, and then I make collages of whatever it is I see. Sketchwise, I think at the moment it's the Zentangles that I'm doing. You have Inktober, so I like to do something for a whole month, the same kind of thing. And then it gives you a nice collection.

MR: Yeah.

CO: Yeah.

MR: Interesting. I know a little bit about Zentangle. I think it's fascinating. And we'll put a link in the show notes for anyone who's never heard of it before to look at it. It's really cool. It's really cool.

CO: It's very meditative. Yeah.

MR: It's some crossover between sketchnoting—it is a visual practice, but it's very personal, I think. And the way to kind of get thoughts out of your head as you talked about.

CO: Yeah. And the personal thing is somehow in everything I do, all kinds of art things, I always need words. So I always think of words and I like incorporating words or a sentence into whatever it is I'm doing. And this morning I was thinking, I'm going to try a Zentangle that incorporates a word into it or something. I think that's probably also my personal thing because otherwise Zentangle they can look alike. So I'm looking at how can I make my own Zentangle signature or something like that.

MR: Something of a crossover.

CO: Yeah. Yeah.

MR: Interesting.

CO: Yeah. Yeah.

MR: Well, you know, one of my memories doing something creative with you, you mentioned Lisbon, is when I reached out to you and said, "Hey, let's do a workshop on lettering."

CO: Yeah.

MR: And that was so much fun, right? We got a little projector and we each kind of presented our different ways of doing things. And encouraging people to say like, "You know, Mike does it this way, and Claire does it this way. They're just inspirations for you to do it your way. These are some starting points."

CO: And we did them on the Usem cards.

MR: On those little cards. Yeah. Yeah, yeah.

CO: It doesn't have to be huge. It can be small and it can be yours. And we did coffee, we did the cards with the coffee and told people to make their own cards around coffee.

MR: Right, right. We'll have to link to those cards too, for someone to find them, so.

CO: Yeah. Yeah. You mentioned the international camp, and of course, the international camp is also great the way that came into existence and how people meet there as well.

MR: Yeah. Yeah. If you're listening and you are curious about it, we have interviews, I think with every organizer of the event past seasons. But basically, it was four women in Germany who decided—

CO: Yeah, Exactly. Yeah.

MR: - they wanted to make something happen, and they just—that's the way the community is. Someone just decides we're gonna do it. Kinda like Claire and I decided, "Hey, let's do a thing on lettering." Like no one gave us permission. We just decided, right? So I think that community mindset is all through, and anybody that comes into the community feels that, and I think that's really empowering to feel like you can do it.

CO: It reminds me of in COVID time we did the sketchnote on location museum visits.

MR: Yes, I remember that.

CO: Yeah. That was also so cool. And sometimes, I mean, I don't want a pandemic ever again, but somethings that happened in the pandemic were very cool.

MR: Yeah. It showed that you can be creative. Yeah.

CO: I remember here we had the first signs of COVID happening in Italy. And I thought the Marro and Mario, and I felt sorry for them. So I sent a couple of the community members a message saying, "Shall we send Marro and Mario a positive message every morning?" And I gathered all these messages not knowing that we were actually going to be in the same situation as they were, because I just thought it would stay isolated in poor old Italy and not to reach us. But then of course it did.

You can send out a question like that and people actually want to participate and then they also participate. If you have a lot of people, some people had to wait for 20 days, and then they actually wait, and on their day, they post something.

MR: They're excited. Yeah.

CO: Yeah, yeah. I really like that. I really like that. It also brings me to, at the moment, with everything that's going on Twitter, I feel like our community is quieter.

MR: Yeah, I think so.

CO: At least. Yeah. Yeah

MR: It's spreading out a little bit. You know, we have a Slack channel for Sketchnote Army, which you can of course check out. I know there's other people that are creating private chat areas and I think probably individuals are probably chatting with each other, but I think there is—maybe that could be an encouragement for this year is find some way, some public place. I think it's maybe moved to Instagram to some degree, but, you know, it's more visual there, it's not—

CO: It's a bit different.

MR: Yeah. It's different.

CO: It's not about the conversations. On Twitter, you could wake up in the morning and you had 89 messages or something like that. In Instagram you don't have—maybe you have—also, I'm on Slack, but—

MR: It's different.

CO: You also have that on—it's different somehow, but, and maybe it's also digital fatigue after pandemic.

MR: Could be, yeah.

CO: That's also quite possible that people need detoxing from the digital world.

MR: Yeah. There's quite a lot of dynamics involved probably, I suspect.

CO: Yeah. Yeah.

MR: You know, talking about the International Sketchnote Camp, it's happening in 2024 in Texas, the details aren't available yet 'cause Prof. Clayton, who's organizing is still working out details. But he's a professor of a university in Texas, in San Antonio. It would be centered around San Antonio.

An opportunity for maybe some Europeans to make it to the states and see that and have some great barbecue of course and tacos and the things that are unique to San Antonio and Texas. So as we get more information, we'll of course post that. If you haven't been to one of those, especially if you're in the U.S., this would be a great opportunity for you to come to it.

CO: Yeah, I think especially if you're in the U.S. because they've all been here in Europe. I can imagine that people in the U.S., It's a lot of money of course, that you have to spend. If it's in the U.S., it's closer to home, but it's such a nice experience. It reminded me of, you know, when I was at school as a kid, he would go on weeks with your class and you'd have fun—

MR: School trips. Yeah.

CO: - doing silly things and laughing your heads off and having, you know jaw pain and stomach aches because you laughed too much.

MR: Laugh so much. Yeah.

CO: Yeah. Yeah.

MR: You don't want it to end, you know, at the end of this time.

CO: And sing together and dance together, and when you get older, maybe sometimes you feel like you can't behave that way anymore, but it's—

MR: We do.

CO: I remember when we were here in Leiden, the last day we danced and sang and it's so much fun. It's so much fun. I mean, I always think never grow up. And sometimes it's good to have that feeling and to just laugh out loud.

MR: Yeah. places where you can be yourself.

CO: Yeah. Laugh out loud to silly things that you can't describe to people who weren't there. Very difficult to describe to people who weren't there. So I would tell my colleagues and you know, people who haven't been there and who don't know that, I think they don't understand why it's so much fun, but it's a lot of fun.

MR: Yeah. It is. Definitely it is.

CO: Yeah. It's hard work for whoever organizes it.

MR: Yeah. But, you know, it's for the community, so there's satisfaction in delivering it to the community. That's what I've noticed in all the organizers when they're done, they feel tired but it's like a good tired when you do something of meaning and you're tired for a good reason. That's the kind of feel that they often have.

CO: Yeah. And definitely, I mean, how cool is it to see people enjoying themselves over something that you organized.

MR: Yeah. Super satisfying.

CO: Yeah. yeah.

MR: So, we'll have more information on the Sketchnote Army page when that's officially announced, which I think should be relatively soon. I won't speak for Prof, but maybe by the time this recording comes out, it'll already be announced. I dunno. We'll see.

CO: Yeah.

MR: So you mentioned you mentioned these little cards, and that reminds me to talk to you about your favorite tools. You mentioned too that you do digital. But let's first talk about analog tools since we're old school and we love our analog tools. What are your favorite pens? You talked about these cards. Are there notebooks that you like? Any other stuff that you use that you can share with us that maybe might inspire someone to try something new?

CO: I'd say Hobonichi is number one. Hobonichi paper is perfect. I always like the small sizes, so the A6, Techo. These days I use Talens. It's a Dutch brand. Which is very nice paper, but not so much if you're writing with a fountain pen, which I like. And then Fountain pen-wise I like TWSBI. TWSBI has a very nice pen point. And I really like extra fine. I don't really like the medium. I always like writing an extra fine. And then the extra finest is a Sailor Fountain pen.

So fountain pen. And then I use I think it's—now I can't remember the—but anyway, the watertight ink in the converter in my fountain pen. I don't remember the make anymore. Diplomat ink. And then for using fineliners yeah, recently I've been using Art Line. I picked up an Art Line, I think on—I'm not sure, at a sketchnote camp sometime, maybe even in Portugal. So I don't remember. And they're very—now, I used to use Uni Pin, I think it was called Uni Pin.

MR: Yep. I've used those.

CO: Actually I'm using Art Line a lot. And they're very water tight. They're actually really black-like.

MR: Nice.

CO: And some of the pens, if you press too hard, the tips kind of disappear into the pen.

MR: Squish.

CO: Yeah, yeah. That doesn't happen with those. And then I like using colored pencils and then have to think what's—oh yeah, Carand'ache.

MR: Okay. French.

CO: And then the watercolor pencils because you can—

MR: You can put some water on them.

CO: Watercolor pencils are really good colors. If you press hard, they're actually very dark. I don't know how you say that.

MR: Yeah, intense. Yeah.

CO: Intense colors. Yeah.

MR: And then I think you can use water to spread them too as well.

CO: You can use water. Yeah. And so, those are the things I use most. And then you have the Usem cards. The sad thing is the guy who made the Usem cards and sold them, et cetera, he passed away last year. So they're looking for someone to take over his business. So it's down for the moment, but I'd still share the—because they're working on, you know, someone else doing it.

MR: Keeping it going.

CO: It probably be up again. Yeah. I like using small, and so like what I'm doing now is, what I do is I have these little—

MR: Oh, I can see them.

CO: A little gift tag.

MR: Yeah, like a price tag or something.

CO: Yeah. And then a little gift tag. And then I tie them together, and then I put that in my coat pocket. And then sometimes I just take them out, and then I always have a pen in my coat pocket and a little packet of those.

And then I just sketch or Zentangle, or write a word that I want to remember or whatever. And on my holidays, what I've been doing is these little wooden pegs, and then I sketch the name of wherever it is I'm visiting, and I put those in all my pictures.

MR: Oh, nice.

CO: That's how—yeah. And then digital. So I have an iPad Pro. I tried working with the Remarkable for my notes at work but it didn't work. I need paper. I need to feel paper, I need to feel the flow of my fountain pen on the paper, and I need to be able to color in with red or wherever in my lettering. And Remarkable doesn't do colors so Remarkable was a bit boring. And iPad is too smooth to do that. I tried the sticker thing on top, but also so—

MR: Still wasn't enough. The paper—

CO: Still it wasn't enough. I like writing on paper, but when I do my sketches—so I do a lot of sketching for all kinds of educational things here in the Netherlands, and I do those on my iPad. And when I'm sketching as a sketchnote, I usually use Adobe. I think it's called Fresco.

MR: Yes.

CO: It used to use Pro, but it changed. I'm still kind of getting used to Fresco because things work a bit differently. And when I'm doing a more kind of artistic look to it, then I use Procreate.

MR: Okay. 'Cause of the brushes they have available of course.

CO: Yeah. They have different kinds of brushes and blurring and they have so many possibilities that I think Fresco's a bit harder. It looks like writing on paper more than Procreate. Can also look that way, but it also does a lot of as if you're using a brush or whatever.

MR: It is interesting that these—

CO: In the more artistic way.

MR: - tool has a field to it, right? You know?

CO: Yeah.

MR: Great. Does feel like it's made for making art.

CO: Yeah, exactly. And I used to do a lot on my phone just with my finger, and I used to draw on my phone, but since I have my iPad, I usually have my iPad in my bag. Also, I have a far too heavy bag. I'm always carrying around everything. And then I have, you know Diana's little pencil case?

MR: Yeah. Yeah.

CO: And it always starts off relatively flat and empty. And then within a week it's far too full. And then my bag gets heavier and heavier and I have to empty and sort it all again.

MR: Reset. We have to reset.

CO: And then I'm sure you recognize I have far too many pens, but I'm still always able to find a pen that I really need and I can't do without, and then I just have to get it. So, when I was in Jordan a couple of weeks ago, and we arrived on the December 31st at 11:00 p.m. And right across the street of our hotel was a little pen shop—

MR: Oh, nice.

CO: - which was open on December 31st at half past 11 at night. So I had a stroll around that. And of course, had to buy two little pens, which I really needed.

MR: Of course.

CO: Probably not, but still.

MR: You can rationalize anything, right? Yeah.

CO: Yeah. Yeah.

MR: That's great. That's great. Well, we'll have to make sure and put links into the show notes, especially Diana's pencil case. The standup pencil case. So we'll find that link as well.

CO: Diana pencil is really good.

MR: Yeah. So now let's shift into the tips section. So this is where I frame it as, imagine someone's listening or watching, they're visual thinker of some kind. Maybe they feel like they've reached a plateau, or they just need a little bump of inspiration, what would you tell that person in three tips?

CO: Well, I think I'd start off with practice. And because with practice, you develop your own way of visual thinking. 'Cause It's about paper layout. When you start, you want to have an idea of how you're going to place things on paper, which also I think brings me to that white spaces don't matter.

When I started, I would put everything together. And it would kind of intertwine 'cause sometimes you want to add a picture or a word, or you want to tie it together with a border or with a color or whatever. I think another tip would also be don't be afraid of white spaces because in the end, what you do is you finish it off and you'll notice that those white spaces won't matter.

You also need a bit of peace and quiet in your sketch. If it's too full, it's too much. And if you're able to work in quiet spots in your sketch, I think it's also good to have a bit of peace of and quiet on your paper or in your notes.

And I think with all the talking about tools, et cetera, It's not really about the tools because like I was saying about my students, I think you have to try, and then you try different tools, and then you work out that, you know, you prefer the 0.1 over the 0.8 pen or the other way around. And whether you prefer the Caran d'Ache over Stabelo pencils or whatever.

And it's not really about the tool, so don't go around buying whole sets. Start off with one. You know, usually you can also buy one color of a certain pen or a certain pencil. First try it out before you invest in lots of tools that you're not really going to use. And that's why I also think of buying a whole box of pencils or a whole box of felt tip pens or whatever colors, there's a lot of colors you're never going to use.

MR: Right.

CO: Yeah. So it might feel like it's more expensive to buy the single pencil, but in the end, if you're only going to be using three of the colors of a whole box in these days, you know, you'll have to think about not wasting too much. Yeah.

MR: Cool. Those are—

CO: That would be—I don't know, did I say things in pictures? I'm not sure whether I said that already.

MR: That can be number four, I guess. Yeah.

CO: I do drawings for educational meetings. And then they'll have a theme. And then I always find myself saying is if they have a theme for one of their evenings, they have a title. The title is usually very general. So I find myself always asking them, what kind of words do you think of within your theme? And those words will help you find the icon and the pictures and metaphors will help sometimes as well. And that reminds me that a good link would also be is the Noun Project.

MR: Yeah.

CO: Yeah. The Noun Project is where, if you have a word, you can type it in and it gives you all kinds of digital drawings that people have made little icons, and not that you use them, but they are good for inspiration for what you can use in your drawing yourself or in your sketch. So I use that a lot as well with the Noun Project. Yep.

MR: That's great. Those are great tips. We have four good tips and solid ones that you can apply right away. Thank you.

CO: Good.

MR: So tell us, Claire, what's the best way to reach you? A website, social media, if someone would like to follow your work and reach out and say hi.

CO: I think I'm most active on Instagram. So that would be #claire_ohl. My name Ohlenschlager, that's far too long. And that's where I post a lot, it's not everything. And of course, I don't post the notes I take at work anymore.

MR: Right.

CO: In my profile, I have the link to a WordPress called Claire's Creativities. I haven't updated those. But if you look in that, then you see—well, I just described that I'm very diverse. I'm not a specialist, so I do lots of things. And then you'll see all kinds of things I do that aren't necessarily sketch noting, but still recognizably me. So, yeah.

MR: That's great. That's great. Well, we'll definitely put that in the show notes as well. So if you wanna see her work or reach out and say hi, you can certainly do so.

CO: Yeah. I'll let you know the names, I'll send them to you just to be sure, the names of my pen and my notebook.

MR: Yeah, for sure. We'll get that to make sure we put those in the show notes. Perfect.

CO: Yeah. Well, Claire, thanks for being on the show. More importantly, thank you for being part of our community. Thanks for being a leader, for being so welcoming and caring and connecting. You're another part of this community that's connected us together. So thank you for your contributions. I really appreciate you and the work you've done, because you've made a lot of people's lives better. Thank you.

CO: Thank you very much, Mike. Very kind words. Thank you. And thank you for inviting me, and thank you for being my inspiration, because that's what you're, and I'm sure you're to many other people in our community.

MR: Oh, thank you. I appreciate that as well.

CO: Yeah. Yeah.

MR: Well, for anyone who's watching or listening, it's another episode of the Sketchnote Army Podcast. Until the next episode, we'll talk to you soon.