Roger Berkowitz talks with Martin Gurri, author of The Revolt of the Public and the Crisis of Authority in the New Millennium. They discuss the conflict between elites and the public, the emergence of the Yellow Vest movement in France, the dangers of colliding publics and elites, the failure of elites in relation to Donald Trump's rise, the connection between nihilism and racism, and the paradox of Trump's nihilism in governance.
The digital revolution has resulted in an erosion of authority, creating a more diverse and complex public sphere.
Restoring authority requires a better alignment between elites and the public, as well as decentralization of power at the local level.
Deep dives
The Revolt of the Public: Exploring a Digital Tsunami
In this podcast episode, Roger Berkowitz interviews Martin Gurri, author of the book 'The Revolt of the Public and the Crisis of Authority in the New Millennium.' Gurri explains how the digital revolution has led to a tsunami of information, resulting in an erosion of authority. He highlights the dramatic shift from a narrow public sphere dominated by elites to a more diverse and complex public. Gurri emphasizes the mutual incomprehension between the public and the elites, with both sides viewing each other with disdain. He also discusses the danger of nihilism, where the public turns to destructive behavior without a positive alternative. Despite the crisis of authority, Gurri believes that authority can be restored through greater alignment between elites and the public, as well as decentralization of power at the local level.
The Elites and the Public: A Clash of Perspectives
Gurri analyzes the characteristics of elites and the public in the context of the crisis of authority. He describes elites as individuals who run the institutions of modern society, often highly educated and part of established hierarchies. However, their detachment from the social reality of ordinary people has created a sense of frustration and resentment from the public. The public, on the other hand, is a diverse and many-headed entity, driven by its opposition to the established order. Gurri contrasts this modern expression of the public with past movements, highlighting the decentralization and lack of clear leadership that characterizes current protests and revolts. He warns of the dangers of the public slipping into nihilism and the elites failing to address the grievances and needs of the people.
The Crisis of Authority: A Threat to Liberal Democracy
The podcast delves into the crisis of authority and its potential impact on liberal democracy. Gurri argues that authority is eroding due to the inability of elites to control the narrative and information flow in the digital age. This erosion is reflected in declining trust in institutions and a growing disconnect between the elites and the public. He cautions against the temptation to view the wave of protests and revolts as inherently positive for democracy, as they can lead to a dangerous sense of nihilism and destruction. Gurri suggests that rebuilding authority requires elites to earn the trust and admiration of the public by aligning with their aspirations and addressing their needs. He also emphasizes the importance of decentralizing power and allowing local governments to flourish as a way to restore authority and legitimacy.
Trump and the Paradox of Governing as a Nihilist
The podcast explores the paradox of governance in the context of Donald Trump's presidency. While Trump is seen as a product of the crisis of authority and the revolt of the public, Gurri argues that he is also a nihilist in his approach to governance. Trump's ability to govern while maintaining his role as a disruptor stems from his occasional displays of vulgarity and contentious behavior. Despite the significant attention given to Trump, Gurri suggests that the focus should be on the deeper structural forces that have led to the crisis of authority, rather than solely on the individual. He urges listeners to consider the larger turbulence and challenges that exist beyond Trump's presidency as they continue to shape the future of authority and democracy.
The Hannah Arendt Center presents the Amor Mundi Podcast. This episode, Roger Berkowitz talks with Martin Gurri, author of The Revolt of the Public and the Crisis of Authority in the New Millennium.
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