645: 'We're getting precipitously close to having a significant issue with access to healthcare' (Video)

"We've just made it so complex that the average consumer will never understand it."

That's what Chris Jones said on this episode of Plain Talk, referring to the way Americans access and pay for health care.

Jones is the former head of the North Dakota Department of Health and Human Services, having served in that role under Gov. Doug Burgum, and he's just finishing up a stint in President Donald Trump's administration where he's advised Secretary of Health Robert F. Kennedy and Centers for Medicare & Medicaid Services administrator Mehmet Oz. He argues that the maze of employer-provided benefits, government programs, premium subsidies, insurance companies, health care companies, and pharmacy companies that Americans must navigate when they're sick or injured just isn't working.

"The system is broken," he says, and argues that the root problem for all of this is the cost of care. "It's the price, not the financing mechanisms."

What can be done to bring down prices? Transparency is one thing. Americans often have no idea what their care will cost them until they get a bill in the mail, and thanks to the fact that most Americans see their coverage by a third party (an employer-provided insurance policy, or a government program) they have little incentive to find out.

Jones also weighed in on the tug of war between Republicans and Democrats over health care during the ongoing government shutdown. He said that claims from Democrats that "nursing homes are going to close, benefits are being cut for kids and individuals with disabilities" culdn't be "further from the truth."

He also supported new work requirements for Medicaid recipients scheduled to begin in 2029. These rules require enrollees between 19 and 64 to work, volunteer, or participate in a qualifying activity for at least 80 hours per month. Jones pointed out that we already have work requirements in place for programs like food stamps and welfare.

"What I can't understand, morally, is why we think it's okay to work 20 hours a week for food and basic assistance that you need every single day, but to have you work the same amount of time for something you may never use, and that being cruel and unusual, I just can't reconcile in my brain," he said.

Also on this episode, co-host Chad Oban and I discussed Superintendent Kirsten Baesler's appointment to a position in the Trump administration and Gov. Kelly Armstrong's announced bridge loan program for furloughed workers.

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