What’s The Point? A Value Conversation with Katie Burkhart

How can we do more of what we and our clients and buyers value—and less (or better yet, none) of what we don’t? That’s the focal point of essentialist thinker Katie Burkhart’s mission to evolve the way we work.

 We explore:

The question to ask yourself before saying yes (and the freedom you give yourself when saying no). 

Why work life balance is a myth when what we really want is to integrate the two.

How we have changed our collective view of what work really means (even if not everyone has caught up yet).

Why making an impact is “the caboose” behind providing value to your clients and buyers.

How to think about relationships without converting them to currency.

LINKS

Katie Burkhart | Website | Substack | LinkedIn | Entrepreneur

Rochelle Moulton Email List | LinkedIn | Twitter | Instagram

GUEST BIO

Katie Burkhart is the mastermind behind MatterLogicW, the only system for running a business in the value economy. An essentialist thinker, Entrepreneur contributor, thoughtful speaker, and jargon slayer, she shifts your focus by asking “What’s the point?” For more of her thinking, connect with her on LinkedIn and subscribe to WTP.

BOOK A STRATEGY CALL WITH ROCHELLE

RESOURCES FOR SOLOISTS

10 Ways To Grow Revenue As A Soloist (Without Working More Hours): most of us have been conditioned to work more when we want to grow revenue—but what if we just worked differently?

The Soloist Women community: a place to connect with like-minded women (and join a channel dedicated to your revenue level).

The Authority Code: How to Position, Monetize and Sell Your Expertise: equal parts bible, blueprint and bushido. How to think like, become—and remain—an authority.

TRANSCRIPT

00:00 - 00:33

Katie Burkhart: I'm a big believer that you need your core, which has 5 pieces, purpose, vision, outcomes, mission, and values, because we need to know what that core is so that we can make choices based upon it. That's what constitutes a strategy. And when you think about impact, right, Impact is the caboose that comes at the end. We need to deliver value and have value delivered successfully in order to hopefully make an impact. Impact is difficult to measure. It's difficult to put our hands around, but most of us, and it sounds like soloist women, are really looking to

00:33 - 00:36

Katie Burkhart: make that impact and I know a lot of the people I work with do too.

00:41 - 01:07

Rochelle Moulton: Hello, hello. Welcome to Soloist Women where we're all about turning your expertise into wealth and impact. I'm Rochelle Moulton, and today I'm here with Katie Burkhardt, who is an essentialist thinker, entrepreneur contributor, thoughtful speaker, and my favorite, jargon slayer. She is also the mastermind behind MatterLogic, which is a system for running a business in the value economy. Katie, welcome.

01:07 - 01:11

Katie Burkhart: Thank you so much for having me. I'm really excited to be here.

01:11 - 01:40

Rochelle Moulton: Well, I'm excited to have you. So 1 of the reasons that I just had to have you on the show, is your focus on turning what's the point into this key question that we ask with our work, this idea that you can make saying no the way that we get more done and to make value our focus. And I know you normally work with teams inside organizations, but when we met, I was fascinated with how your principles apply to the soloist model. So I want to spend some time

01:40 - 02:16

Katie Burkhart: on that. 100%. You know, so I love getting to know you, you know, a little separately and then spend some time really digging into what a soloist is, which I think you've crystallized really well. And I think we assume work if businesses, big teams are doing it. Small teams may not be doing it, but the great thing about this is it applies to people as people. It applies to soloist businesses. It applies to small teams. It applies to big teams. And the way I want to chat about this is through a story. So I don't know

02:16 - 02:41

Katie Burkhart: if you ever did this as a kid, but my grandparents held an Easter egg hunt every Easter when we were really little. And they used to put a lot of time into putting like coins into some of the eggs and candy into some of the eggs. And you know, The Easter egg hunt was not really the thing. You could just go eat the candy later, but as a kid you didn't understand that. You were really excited for the Easter egg hunt. In my mind, there are 2 ways of doing the Easter egg hunt. The way most

02:41 - 03:12

Katie Burkhart: people do it, which is to take their bucket and as soon as the thing goes off run as hard and as fast as they can in all sorts of different directions. They're bumping into all the other kids. In some cases, they're smashing the eggs. They're trying to throw whatever they can into the basket. They're a hot, sweaty mess by the time they get to the end, and they have really variable results. The other way to go about doing it is to determine very specifically what value it is that you wanna deliver. What is it that you're

03:12 - 03:43

Katie Burkhart: really looking at? Set a specific focus and to be able to go out and assess the eggs that you're confronting and then put the ones that fit into your basket. At the end, you're gonna have a lot less eggs, most likely, but you are gonna be in a much stronger position because you're not exhausted, You're not hot and sweaty, you're not super distracted, and the eggs that are in your baskets are good ones. They're whole, they're not crushed, and they're what you really need to have to actually be able to get the job done and move

03:43 - 04:09

Katie Burkhart: forward. And that's the way I really like to look at this, is to really be able to say, what's the point? You know, what's the point of why my business exists, whether you're a soloist or a bigger team, you need to be able to answer that question. And in the value economy, it needs to be based on the value that you deliver to someone actual meaningful value. I'm the first to say that that comes in many different shapes and sizes. You know, you don't have to change the whole world. You do not have to save the

04:09 - 04:44

Katie Burkhart: whales, but you need to deliver value that you can articulate. And that means something to the person you deliver it to. Once you know that point, everything that you go through should have a point and should align with that fundamental point. And that's where that no piece comes in, right? This isn't about minimalist, you know, about, well, We just want to have less. That's true. But no is really a strategic tool to say these don't fit. This is aimless. This doesn't have a point or its point does not really fit with the strategy that we're here

04:44 - 04:47

Katie Burkhart: to advance. You know, we need to say no.

04:47 - 05:07

Rochelle Moulton: Well, I feel like you were watching me at my first Easter egg hunt. So there's that. And I was the first 1, not the second 1. Let's be clear. So Katie, what made you? I mean, you started your business. What made you start your business? And then did you immediately focus on this? I mean, did you land on this mission right away or was this a process?

05:08 - 05:40

Katie Burkhart: Oh, it was a process, mostly accidental. You know, when I started, my very first job was as a lifeguard And I worked at a pretty safe pool and spent a lot of time sitting on my chair staring at mostly empty pool water or the same 2 or 3 kids who came every day who we know were not going to drown. So you were pretty much there by yourself on this chair listening to the clock sort of tick by your life in 15-minute increments until you went to the next chair and you did it again. And what

05:40 - 06:15

Katie Burkhart: I walked away from that experience with was that was not how I wanted to spend my life. Time was far more value than that. And I think you and your soloist manifesto really recognize that true wealth isn't simply money. Time and the ability to have true time freedom is really where wealth comes in. And once I understood that that was particularly motivating to me, I both wanted to pick a career, something that utilized my skills and my interests, however broad that might be. And then, you know, flip side, how do I help other people kind of

06:15 - 06:52

Katie Burkhart: not waste their time, you know, and what it was that they were doing. And I started, as young people do, very focused on the first, and actually spent time as a designer and did work all over the place, in theater, in systems, in data, in anything where you wanted to design a broader system, I was willing to take it on and ended up backing into my first company, Matter 7, which still exists today, where we initially did branding and big brand systems, we have shifted over the years to being truly focused on where, non-surprisingly, our clients

06:52 - 07:24

Katie Burkhart: are looking for value, which is how they tell their story. And at this point, our storytelling studio, but that process led me to see how difficult it actually is for companies and bigger teams to be that second egg hunt team, to really have that level of discipline, to have structure and systems that allows them to do that and really set out to how do I build a methodology? How do I come up with approach? How do I create tools? How do I ultimately teach them, you know, how to go about doing that? So it was a

07:24 - 07:35

Katie Burkhart: little bit of a following where there was a need or where there seemed to be an ability to do something better and seeing if I couldn't find a way to do that. It's interesting the

07:35 - 08:08

Rochelle Moulton: way you described that you were focused on designing things, but you were spreading your efforts in a lot of different directions, which is something most soloists, myself included, can identify with, especially at the beginning of their journey. When you're figuring out in those first, typically 2 or 3 years, you're trying to figure out how to make your business model sustainable and have some consistent revenue. And so we take on some things that later we go, oh yeah, I wouldn't do that now. So let's just talk revenue for a moment and then I want to dive back

08:08 - 08:13

Rochelle Moulton: into your specialty. So do you remember how long it took you to hit your first 100, 000?

08:15 - 08:43

Katie Burkhart: Probably 2 years, although I'd have to really sit back and think about that. But I think it was 2 years with the first company. My second company, the company I spent most of my personal time with at this point, the Matterlogic company, we initially started as a technology company. So we sort of went into it knowing the first couple of years would be non-revenue generating. But when we shifted away from that and wanted to go out into market in a different capacity, that took me slightly more than a year to get us to our first 100,

08:43 - 09:21

Katie Burkhart: 000, which was exciting and very cool to do. But you made a point about when we first start, we kind of go out and take on whatever knocks. Especially as a soloist that kind of, and admittedly if you're a smaller team, It doesn't actually go away, it just looks different. That fear that like if I don't say yes to this project, there won't be another 1. 1 of the things I've learned is that there are many projects that cost more than they pay. And that strategic ability to say no, takes some exercising and takes some practice

09:21 - 09:50

Katie Burkhart: to learn when to say no. But as you're looking at clients and assessments, 1 way to always look at it is when it's early, we took a lot, you know, because I wasn't sure, you know, exactly where I wanted to land. I can't say I really set out to quote unquote make a business. But once I started to figure out, these are the types of people I like to work with, here's why. These are the types of clients that can afford to work with us so that we can do a really good job, here's why. You

09:50 - 10:23

Katie Burkhart: know, we could start to develop a better profile of mutual benefit where I'm excited and ultimately my team's excited to do the work and they're in a position to actually invest enough to get the value that they're looking for. So 100% trial and error starts, but it took me a little longer than I wish it would have to start saying, no, I'm sorry. You aren't really a good fit for us. And then to be able to take the time I would have spent on that project and invest it into another area of my business, which would

10:23 - 10:32

Katie Burkhart: help me get to that right fit client versus struggling with a client who wasn't right fit. I'm sorry, that was a tangent. No, that wasn't a tangent at all. In fact,

10:32 - 11:02

Rochelle Moulton: I was really struck by something you said that many projects cost more than they pay. And that is so true. And I think for soloists, especially because we're selling our expertise, right? We're not selling a widget. And so we're Hopefully we're not selling our time. Hopefully we're selling our expertise based on value, but a lot of times when solas first start, they're selling time. And it's easy to not think of your time as a cost until it starts to get ugly. And then, you know, the light bulb goes off.

11:03 - 11:36

Katie Burkhart: Oh, it's so time is my focus, you know, and starting to get people, even though I think there are some people who recoil and are like, that's so transactional, you know, our goal isn't to make it transactional, but to recognize that you can make more money, but you cannot make more time. So really thinking hard about, you know, what's the point of doing this and really making sure that that's going to be worth the time you exchange for it is a critically important question. And sometimes the answer is like the point of, in my case, watching

11:36 - 12:02

Katie Burkhart: the Karate Kid for the 87th time is because I like it and I'm going to find it relaxing and I'm good with that, but I asked the question, rather than doing it and then finding out later that this wasn't a good use of time. I think it's James Clear or someone else makes the statement that, or it's an adage, that every yes is a no to everything else you could have done with that time. So make sure that you're good with that.

12:02 - 12:37

Rochelle Moulton: Yeah, the yes is a critically important word. So 1 of the things that you talk and write about is the old assumptions about work that keep pulling us back from the brink of changing them. Will you talk some more about that? And I'm curious, especially in this soloist experience, because I found that a lot of soloists, when they're in like a big corporate environment and then they leave, they tend to strip away all of those must-dos, at least when they first start. But then some of those old habits kind of come slowly back into the business.

12:38 - 12:59

Katie Burkhart: Well, I know that you actually have full corporate experience. What was the phrase you used? Suit with the pearls? Sort of curious, before I answer your question, you know, what were the things that you were really walking away from specifically and are you finding that people are still walking away from those things or are they walking away from different things?

13:00 - 13:34

Rochelle Moulton: Oh, That's a good counter question. I was walking away from being told what to do by people who weren't good at what I did. And I kept feeling like my value system was bumping up against a corporate, and I say corporate, it was a big consulting firm, but against a system that didn't allow me enough flexibility to do what I thought was right for my clients and for the business. So it was mostly that, but yeah, I didn't really wear the pearls much after. But it was less about that because I have to be clear, I

13:34 - 14:02

Rochelle Moulton: really loved my work. I loved what I did. I really enjoyed most of the clients. I enjoyed a lot of my colleagues, but it was like time to do what I wanted to do. So it was those kinds of things. I don't think I was rebelling against a corporate structure so much as saying you are not gonna let me do what I want and I'm tired of you trying to put me in a box. So I'm gonna go build a new box and because my first thing wasn't as a soloist it was building a firm that

14:02 - 14:35

Rochelle Moulton: was run the way that I was envisioning a good, healthy firm would be run. But what I see a lot in terms of other women, and it's funny, I saw it back when I first did this and I see it now, is that a lot of women are saying, you know, I want a different kind of life. And it's probably not about whether they have to wear, you know, stockings, God forbid, or a suit, but it's about having time for the other things in their life. And a lot of times that's children or taking care of

14:35 - 14:51

Rochelle Moulton: elder family, but not always. A lot of times it's, you'd be surprised at how many people just have these other interests in their life and they're just kind of done donating or dedicating a good percentage of their life energy to somebody else's goals.

14:52 - 15:26

Katie Burkhart: Yeah, so I have so many ways to try to respond to that. I'm going to try to do this in a way that makes any sense, a little bit of sense at least, because you're hitting on a number of just really good points. And 1 of the things that I like to talk...