Creative Agency Account Manager Podcast What your agency clients really want, with Kate Whittaker
Aug 12, 2020
36:11
Welcome to the Creative Agency Account Manager Podcast with me, Jenny Plant, from Account Management Skills Training.
I'm on a mission to help those in agency client service keep and growing the existing client relationships, so their agency business can thrive.
Welcome to episode one of my first ever podcast. I'm thrilled to have as my first guest a client, and it's Kate Whittaker and she works at DUAL International, and she's head of corporate communications. And Kate is going to share with us what she looks for when selecting an agency - what to avoid when trying to prospect by cold calling clients, why you should be asking your clients for more referrals and then how to get access to even more of your clients once you're embedded in a client organisation. Also, she's going to share some top tips for building really strong client relationships. So I really enjoyed this chat. I hope you get some value. The sound isn't great in places, but I'm working on this. I'm also working on my interview techniques so hopefully with every episode it's going to get better. So now let's go to the interview.
So today I'm really, really excited about Kate Whittaker joining me. Kate is head of corporate communications at DUAL, and she has three decades of experience working in marketing communications and loads of experience managing agency relationships. And I think it's really exciting to get the perspective from a client, really, about the role of an agency account manager. So I'm just going to ask Kate to introduce herself. Kate, welcome to the show,
Kate: Thank you very much, Jenny. I'm really delighted to be here with you although, of course, we're not actually together. So, I'm head of corporate communications for DUAL Group and we're a global insurance group in 16 countries. But we're just about 700 people or so, so it's very personal and friendly. My role is a mix of communications and marketing, which makes it very varied and interesting. So as, Jenny said, I've been working in marketing for around 30 years in a mix of UK and international roles. These have mainly being client side, so I've worked with agencies throughout that time. And one of the reasons I'm really pleased you've asked me here today, Jenny, is I just don't think enough can be done to bring clients and agencies together, working in partnership, and anything I could do to help that process I am delighted to contribute. Until this role at DUAL, I was a branding marketing consultant for around 15 years, and very often this involved reviewing agency rosters and also running agency selection process, so I hope I've lots to say today.
Jenny: Honestly, Kate, I know that you have because, what I failed to mention that the beginning, was that Kate and I met each other about a year ago at an Agencynomics event and I was invited to facilitate a discussion panel, and Kate was one of the guests. We had about four or five agency people and Kate was the token client, and that discussion was so rich and so brilliant and there were agency owners in the audience furiously taking notes and going away with lots of new ideas. So I know that this is going to be a great discussion. And, by the way, if anyone hasn't joined Agencynomics and they're in charge of an agency, I'm going to put an invitation link in the show notes. If you are an agency owner and you have three employees minimum, then it's one of the largest free agency owner communities that there is, and it's a very thriving community. So, Kate, obviously you've got a huge amount of experience as you say, 15 years as a brand marketing consultant as well as the role that you're in currently. So let's start from the beginning. How did you select your agencies, and in that selection process I also am interested to know if you were approached by agencies and whether you still are. So what does that initial process looked like?
Kate: So, obviously it varies from company to company. But to my mind, the common theme for me is I'm looking for a partner to work with. So the selection process is about being clear and transparent about what you need as a client, and what you're expecting the agency to bring to that relationship. I remember in my first few roles, back in the day, the creative directors' agencies were treated like royalty, and woebetide any client who questioned their thinking. Thankfully, those times behind us now, and it is really or should be about partnership. I think that the client agency meeting should be a single team coming together with common goals, but you're bringing different areas of expertise because otherwise why would you be working with them? So you know, if you're not looking forward to the meetings you have with your agency or with your client, I think there's something that needs fixing.
So back to agency selection, typically it had a creative brief, and I'm a massive believer as you know, Jenny, in a clear and comprehensive brief. So we set out our selection criteria and make them very transparent, so every agency knows the points we will be considering that they need to address in their pitch for our business. And the main things I look for are quality of thinking and the ability to provide constructive challenge. Really, possibly because I'm in a more specialist B2B area, I rarely asked agencies to create new creative because I think it's very time consuming and I want their time to be focused on the quality of thinking and strategic direction, but I do like to see campaigns and case studies from previous clients to really understand what the objectives were. what was the brief, and what were the results. If you're an agency and you're looking for new clients my absolute top tip is really do your research. And I know this because I'm on a prospect list somewhere that agencies must be buying that actually list me as working for the Howden Broking Group, which is one of our sister companies. I regularly get emails maybe not every week, but several times a month from agencies promising to transform Howden's marketing and all they would have had to do is a simple check on LinkedIn to see that I don't actually work there and that we're not a broker. I think if you're doing cold calling, my other top tip is take the time to ask if now's a good time to talk. I get cold calls really quite often and it's so rare that someone ask if it's a good time to talk before they launch into a sales pitch. And that just sets me on edge to start with, so those are my two top tips.
Jenny: Kate, I was just going to say there's a few things there already that you've said, which I think are really useful. First of all, I love the fact that you don't ask for new creative at a pitch, because I know that's a little bit of a bone of contention for many agencies because a lot of work goes into pitches generally, and often for like a one in four chance of winning, so a lot of time and effort goes in. It's nice to hear that you don't necessarily want to see brand new creative, but you do want to see examples of work. The other thing that you said, which I thought was really lovely about agency selection, was you're looking for quality thinking and also constructive challenge. So it almost invites the agency to participate in strategy and also to question things. And it's nice that you welcome that approach from agencies as well. But, this is really useful, this how to approach you and there's some brilliant examples there of 'do you research' because I get pitched myself and, you know, if they don't even take the time to understand what you're doing currently, it's just it's a no go, isn't it? Just interested, when you said you were approached, did you say you're on an email list? Do you tend to get approached on email more than anything else, like LinkedIn, for example, do you get pitched in LinkedIn?
Kate: Probably more on email, actually, and on LinkedIn if I get a request, obviously I'm gonna look at who has sent that request and see where the connections are that they've and if it's people I know and value, and that will usually persuade me to accept the request to connect. And then you sort of know you're going to get a pitch, which is okay, because I've already made that decision to enter into a conversation. Phone calls, I do think work less well, because you don't know whether the person you're phoning is going to be busy, having a bad day, whereas I can actually pick and choose the time I might reply to an email or a LinkedIn request.
Jenny: Has it ever worked with you, Kate? So, has anyone pitched you cold? Whether it be phone calls, email or LinkedIn and it's actually turned into a relationship, and an ongoing agency relationship you have?
Kate: Not quite yet. I'm just thinking in recent times, but I am actually in conversation with an agency that came to us with a really interesting and thought provoking email that was nothing really about the agency, it was something around developing tone of voice and how that adds value. It was relevant to me at the time and I'm pretty convinced that they'll have a piece of work from us before the year's out. It's just life is a bit unusual at the moment, and it has happened in the past as well. One of the things I think some agencies have been doing well through lockdown is creating content led webinars so you can go along, share thoughts, share ideas and even if that doesn't lead to me giving an agency a piece of business, or developing a relationship with them, quite often I'm happy to recommend that agency because I've experienced their thinking and the work they've done. And we're really small network within financial services in marketing and people are often asking for recommendations, so it may not come directly but quite often will come indirectly.
Jenny: I love that you've said that as well, because this is what I talked to my agency account directors and account managers about is this doing content led webinars. So this is really interesting, I want to dive the little bit deeper into that. I know that recently, because of the situation with Covid, we're kind of recording this at the beginning of August 2020 where we've just come out of lockdown, or this is the initial stages of coming out of lock down. But a lot of agencies were doing content-led Webinars. What do you look for specifically, that's most interesting for you to take the time to attend?
Kate: Timing is important, so even though I'm working from home, I'm having it feels like twice as many meetings. So something that's over done in an hour is actually really helpful. Don't underestimate that because, actually, there's one agency in particular they do a breakfast meeting or they do it a the end of the day, which is much easier for me to manage my diary. And there are a number of webinars that I've missed because they're at 11 o'clock in the morning and I'm in the middle of something else and I just can't take the time. And then, of course, the content itself is really important. So people that were coming up with ideas around how other people are handling Covid-related communications was something I attended very early on. They were giving examples from really big companies like Apple and Marks and Spencer. And that was really helpful for me because sometimes you know, we've been operating a bit in a vacuum, so to get a sense of what the outside world is doing and communications you might not see otherwise has been helpful. And I think we're all a bit nosey, it's nice to see what other companies are doing and what's worked for them.
Jenny: I think that's spot on, actually. I've seen with other clients, actually, that they want to know what everybody else is doing. So that's an interesting angle for agencies to approach clients is to first of all invite them to something that where they can showcase their knowledge. Presumably, that content webinar was kind of pure content rather than a pitch, right, Kate?
Kate: Yes, it was, but of course, you expect the agency to tell you a little bit about themselves, and it's a clear commercial situation, so you'd actually feel a bit odd if they didn't do a little bit of a sales pitch either at the beginning or the end. But I'm also careful about where I accept hospitality, even in virtual which is slightly different to drinking glasses of wine and eating peanuts. But I do feel if I'm making a commitment and accepting someone's hospitality and receiving wisdom from them that I do have an obligation to give some feedback or to just continue the conversation. So I think you've got really warm prospects if they've accepted an invitation from you.
Jenny: Fantastic. I'm just curious about this because I know that other clients enjoy attending these webinars. Is there any topic that you think would be even more relevant right now that you would be interested in?
Kate: One of the challenges we have faced it is how do we get the messaging and honing the messaging right. Because everybody has been through locked down, but so many people have had very, very different experiences. I've been mostly on my own through lockdown, which I found incredibly challenging because I'm normally out and about and with people all the time. And I've got colleagues who have a two hour commute that simply disappeared and are now spending quality time with their family and they've really enjoyed lockdown. So I think that for me is the biggest challenge of getting that balance right and making sure you're being considerate and compassionate with people. But at the same time, we've all got a business to run. So that, I think, is where I've looked for help from agencies. And that's driven which webinars I might have accepted to attend or not.
Jenny: Fantastic. Okay, so I can see agencies coming up with their 'How to get the tone right with your messaging, your corporate communications' those webinars will be coming out left, right, and centre now Kate, I can just see it! Moving onto agency relationships and the agency account manager or account director specifically, can you give me a flavour or a few examples of where agencies have really earned your trust and have stood out for you for making themselves invaluable?
Kate: Absolutely, you know, this is particular special topic of mine because I think you could have great creative in an agency, but without account management it really just all falls apart. And good account management makes everything run smoothly, but great account management is what transforms the relationship from a client supplier to one of a real partnership and we're quite a specialist company so industry knowledge is really important to me. And the account director I work with in our current agency will often just drop me an email with information, snippets of news and industry news and competitor activity she thinks I might have missed. If I got a problem I need to solve, I will usually pick up the phone up and talk to her, even though it might not result directly in business for her, but the better she understands my business creates better work, and they do often go above and beyond organising calls and giving time, which actually isn't billed. But it's that stacks up and creates credits, and that trust is something that obviously has to build over time. But I have a really good example. Last year, we had an internal Leadership conference, which is attended by all the group companies and we had to produce a video for it. I created the brief, gave it to the agency. The solution they came back with included dancing cartoon cats and doughnuts on and that was obviously never in the brief, but it was absolutely amazing. It completely wowed the audience. People internally are still talking about this video as something that took them completely by surprise, changed their perception of our business and I think that's a really good example of them feeling comfortable enough to present something completely left-field and me feeling comfortable that they had got that judged correctly. And also, hats off to my CEO whose signed off the concept. We trusted them enough for us to be brave and also for them to be brave and suggesting the concept. So I think it is something that comes with time, that trust and it has to be earned, but when it's there something you never want to give up.
Jenny: Wow, I agree. That was a fantastic example, because I think for clients it is a risk, isn't it? Sometimes if an agency comes up with an idea that's particularly bold or to stand out, it's either going to be memorable or it has the potential to fall flat. Getting it just right, fantastic hats off to them for presenting the idea to you. But was there any moment in that transaction that you thought, oh, I'm not 100 percent sure, or were you convinced at the beginning?
Kate: I was convinced, and actually the account director has more years in the insurance industry than I have to so I trust her judgement as well, but actually it was just the CEO's response to it. I thought, iIf he goes with dancing cats then we're fine, we're all good and he loved it. The only challenge is we've got to repeat the impact that we have to do the event again this year.
Jenny: Yeah, you've set the bar too high. You've mentioned a few times about industry knowledge. And how important is is that a prerequisite of working with you? You mentioned that your account director had more experience in the actual industry. Was that because they were ex client as well? Or have they just acquired that industry knowledge through time?
Kate: It's a mix, she was on the client side, but actually her and her partner have this agency they set it up, so that gives them more skin in the game as well. But I would say industry experience is important in certain sectors. So I work in the underwriting arm of insurance, so it's nothing mainstream, like selling car insurance or home insurance. Without understanding those challenges and the markets we operate in it's quite hard to actually create communications campaigns. But obviously in other sectors, like banking, you know, everyone's experienced banking and we've all got a bank account. So yes, industry knowledge is good, but it's not gonna be as essential as it is in the more specialist B2B areas.
Jenny: You gave a little tip there, which I thought was fantastic, is to prove to your client that you understand the industry is to send them snippets of news on a regular basis. Just out of interest, going a little bit tactical here, but when your account director or manager sends you that snippet of information, do they then give you their point of view on whether this snippet of information represents may be an opportunity for you to do something? Or maybe it represents a challenge that you need to do something about that they give you their point of view?
Kate: Yes, absolutely. Either it's going to be in response to a conversation we've already had, or are having or it's about something they know that is coming up. And that's the reason I see my agency is part of my team. They just happen to work somewhere else. In the same way that a team member said something you would say, 'Oh, I thought this about it', you get that from the agency as well, so they really do feel like an extension of us, which was where it adds real value., .
Jenny: I suppose, also, from the agency's point of view it's an opportunity for them to remain visible, isn't it? If they are sending you regular snippets.
Kate: Yes, I think this is about intent, isn't it? So I think you think we're doing it just to, you know, go 'Oh, I haven't written to Kate this week', I must send her an email about something then I think you would spot that. But it does absolutely keep them visible and present. Quite often they'll share something with me that I share on within the company as well, so you know, everybody's quite comfortable with the choice of agency and nobody's says why we're spending money externally, even through Covid, because they see how they add value across the business.
Jenny: Did the agency account manager ask you whether you wanted her to be keeping you updated on what was happening in the market? Or was it talked about at the beginning of the relationship at all?
Kate: No, it wasn't even in the slightest. I was just I think we've worked so closely together, it just feels like we're having a bit of a conversation and chat as you would with a colleague. So it does feel that informal and a close relationship.
Jenny: I love that. That's really good. I think this is really good tip for most agency account managers to take note of. And just to go, sorry, I'm going a little bit too deep into this, but just to be specific so people can come away with some actionable things to do that information. When is it most valuable to you? Because obviously they could share an insight into your customer, into the market, into the industry in general, into your company or your competitors? Does it matter specifically what they're sharing with you from the market?
Kate: No, it doesn't. I think that, back to the earlier conversation that I like to involve my agency in understanding, deeply understanding, our strategy. So I invest the time to explain what we're doing. So normally, what they share is relevant, even though it might be different topics and themes. The other thing, which I should have mentioned already, is that it starts a conversation because I'll reply and go 'that's interesting, I'll have a think about this'. And sometimes it does result in us sending out an email that we weren't planning to do or some other kind of communication. So it's done with the best intent, and it might result in a piece of paid work or it might not. But it's done as part of a team.
Jenny: That's amazing, brilliant. Just changing tack, a bit, Kate. There's some great examples of where agencies getting it right. What about where agencies get it wrong and you share a couple of examples of the kinds of things to not do with their clients.
Kate: I think it comes back to account management for me almost every time, and when it doesn't work, it just feels exhausting. So I remember in one situation I inherited an agency when I moved into a new role and it was a project based role, so I had no intention of changing agencies. While I was there, I was just really there to deliver a project and they consistently missed deadlines, poor communication, inaccurate contact reports, inaccurate invoicing. And it was exhausting and chipped away any trust they may otherwise have had. And I think no surprises on both sides is really essential. So if I'm committing to get back with comments by close of play today, and I know that's not going to happen, I try and tell my agency as soon as I can. So they don't actually book time in the studio that they're not going to be using, and I expect the same back, it's just a sort of situation of respect, really. Things do go wrong and deadlines slip, but we should work together to create solutions. But I think that communication is key - don't make me chase you for something that should have been delivered.
Jenny: Very good point. You said something there that was, I think, quite apt, 'I inherited the agency'. Would you agree that if an agency has a new client coming into the role, that's quite a key time to kind of step up the activity or do something different?
Kate: Yes, 100%. Because of my consultancy background and the number of roles I've had over that 15 years quite often, I was going into roles where I was inheriting (that's an interesting expression 'inheriting' isn't it?) but inheriting other people's agency choices. Nine times out of 10, that's absolutely fine. But occasionally, you know things aren't going well and that's either because of an over confidence on the agency's side that they didn't feel the need to take the time to bring me up to speed with who they were and and what they've been doing. The ones that got it right would immediately, you know, welcome me. Tell me to come over and spend some time with him so I could understand what they offered. Because the other thing when you go into a new role, is your understanding of the agency is different than it would be if you've been through a pitch from them, because you don't understand the breadth and depth of the services they offer. So it's really helpful for me to know that the agency can do several other things other than the work they're really doing for me. And that's a great opportunity to kind of re-sell your business into the client side.
Jenny: It's a no brainer, really, isn't it? That's a really great point, Kate. What about if, during the course of working with an agency, an agency has some new ideas to share with you? Do you welcome that? When is a good time to do that? How often should an agency do that and is there ever a bad time to do that?
Kate: I don't think there's a bad time, really. The great thing about working with an agency is you put in a brief, you debate it, there's challenge around the brief and then the agency will come back with something which is better because you've had that collaborative process. And of course, there's gonna be times where the creative team say 'If we did this, it would be amazing'. And it would just turn what's an ordinary campaign into a great campaign, and I would always want those ideas to be suggested. If we don't have the money for it, I will be open and transparent. And I think that that acknowledgement that we know this wasn't in the brief but it sounds like a great idea - they're great conversations and they can take you down a direction you didn't expect, but is a better result in the end. I think the bad time to do it is where, I mean not so much these days, but agencies will add extra suggestions into their proposal because it's adding money to the end invoice, and I think clients will be usually quite adept to telling the difference between the two.
Jenny: That's a really very good point there. You just said something a moment ago that I just wanted to ask you a bit more about. You said 'I will be clear if I don't have the money for it'. Has this ever happened to you, where an agency's come up with an idea that actually 'I'm going to find the money because we really need to do that'?
Kate: Yes, and in fact, that conference video that I talked about a moment ago was a really good case in point, because we spent quite a lot of money on that. Originally, we were just going to do a talking head straightforward run of the mill insurance video and luckily there was an appetite to spend the extra budget and it paid off so well. We've used it at events, we've used it to win new business, we've used it externally as well as internally. So, yes, if there is a great idea if you are in a lucky position in the company you work for, you can usually find some extra budget.
Jenny: And did the agency at the time of presenting that sort of slightly out their idea did they position it as this is going to get you more business? You know, if we can do this, did they sell it to you in that way? Or was it just Look, this is a fantastic idea, and it's just subsequently made you more money.
Kate: The additional complications and really, really tight deadline, which I had made the decision to bring the scope back to something more ordinary because I didn't think we had enough time to do something extraordinary and actually what they came and pitched was 'we can do this, we can work weekends, we could work late hours because we think this is what you need'. And the fact that they were putting themselves to that trouble, but to produce something that they were going to be proud of as well, was what resonated with all of us.
Jenny: Oh, I love that. We think this is what you need. I love that sort of confidence. Kate, in the course of working with your agencies and I know this came up at Agencynomics, I ask you the same question, so I kind of know what you're gonna say, but it's still blew everyone away when you gave the answer. How often do agencies ask you to refer them to somebody else?
Kate: Hardly ever. It's really surprising because normally you'd think if you were in a position where you're working with an agency of a period of time it's because everybody's happy. You would think that would happen a lot. I've been giving some thought to it since we had that initial conversation and possibly for me, it's because I'm in a specialist market, and so would I be referring my agency to my competitors? No, because I don't want them to work with them. But I'm always happy to give endorsements and particularly if it showcases the work that we've done. I find that information really interesting when I look at agency websites or agency events, if you can look at case studies of similar clients and addressing similar issues, so I'm just really surprised people don't ask more.
Jenny: It's a really good point, actually, as you say, if you're in a specialist area and who are you going to be referring them to? Probably not a competitor, because they did really good work for you. But what about within your company? Because if you're managing corporate comms, for example. But you have I mean, I don't know how your company's structured, but say you have individual brand managers in other departments or even other departments, per se, that would also benefit from working with an external agency. Would you see an internal referral as an opportunity for an agency to ask you?
Kate: Yeah, in fact, I've done that. Interestingly, the famous video, that video the following day I had six emails from people all over the world asking me who had worked with on it, and asking for an introduction, so the agency introduced themselves with that piece of work. But also, what I try and do is if the agency has got something interesting to share then I will bring in my colleagues from other parts of the business. And we might have, you know, might have a discussion over lunch on a particular topic so they get to meet those colleagues of mine and create their own relationship.
Jenny: I'm so glad you mentioned that, because that's another thing that I talked to my agency account managers about is instigating lunch and learn sessions. So what kinds of topics, particularly what are the topics that are most interesting?
Kate: We'll given we work in insurance so probably none of it is very interesting for most people! We'll look at things like developing a brand personality, and making sure that communications are authentic and feel credible and consistent. Also specialist areas like developing email marketing campaigns that are effective, so top 10 tips. Just some simple things like that, bringing ideas from outside our business that other people are doing just thought provoking, and it's usually a really good use of your time.
Jenny: I love that. It's also an opportunity for the agency to be in front of people that they don't know within the client company, isn't it, for them to establish relationships with other people that your colleagues that they could then perhaps develop and nurture those relationships.
Kate: Exactly. And it does mean that I'm endorsing the agency and inviting them in and inviting colleagues. So it's a win win, I would have thought.
Jenny: Really, really good point. Thank you for sharing that. This has been gold. It really has. I just want to ask you a couple more questions, if that's okay? What has changed for you, if anything, in light of what's happened with Covid, particularly around your agency relationships?
Kate: Well, I think that right at the beginning of Covid is nobody knew what was going on. But actually the agencies I work with all reached out and touched in that first week. I was actually supposed to be on holiday in Argentina, so they knew I hadn't gone away and people were checking in. I think there was that personal touch first, and then they're was, 'can we help within communications? what are you working on on?' The biggest challenge for us as a business, but in our European businesses, less so in the US and Asia Pacific businesses where they're already dealing with big distances, in Europe most of our meetings with our client has been based to face so suddenly with that not possible, we're all turning to Zoom and Teams and Skype and trying to make those more engaging. So our agency was coming up with ideas about how to make those more engaging, how we might pitch invites even if they weren't actually involved, or being paid for that advice. They were really, really helpful and also just going back to webinars and events, virtual events have been held just sharing information. That's been a really productive part of agency connectons through this time.
Jenny: That's fantastic. And now we're kind of moving out of lockdown, potentially - let's hope we're not gonna go back into it - but what would you say is the tipping point now? What would be most helpful at the point that we're at now, given the circumstances you're in?
Kate: Our particular challenge or maybe objective rather than challenge, is how do we keep our teams new thing, these new virtual ways of interacting with clients, and proving that they work? And our agency is helping us pull together our own internal case studies, because we still have some of our business heads who think email marketing is a newfangled idea. So actually proving effectiveness on how measurable some of the things we've been doing through lockdown is what we'll focus on at the moment as we go through. We won't ever be back to business as normal, I don't think, or certainly not in the foreseeable future. So it's just staying in touch with how the industry is moving in and a better sense of what our sector is doing.
Jenny: A really good point, and I'm sure that's translatable for agency account managers listening in, thinking about their own clients and how they can provide the most value to them. So that's really, really useful. This is the last question Kate for you. Honestly, you've been amazing. If agency account managers want to be seen by their clients as more of a trusted adviser, have you got any advice for them?
Kate: Yes, I think, to two piece of advices I would give to account managers. First is really listen to your clients that you can better understand their business and their challenges. I mean, we're all flattered when people listen to what we have to say but actually also, if I've invested time with you explaining my business,what we do, then I've created that relationship already, and you're much more likely to be able to bring better solutions to me. And I'm much more likely to ask your views and advice going forward, so that's a bit of a virtuous circle, I think. And the second is please don't be afraid to challenge. I've got three decades of experience. That does not mean I'm right. And quite often, you know, I will say to people when I work with them, 'I need you to be questioning my thinking', because there will always be a better result that comes out of that. And it's back to intent, Jenny. Because if you constructively challenge with the right intent, then is always a better solution and you work much more closely together if you've had that debate.
Jenny: Amazing. That's fantastic advice, Kate. You sound like the ideal client. Are you in the market for a new agency right now?
Kate: Sadly not. Do feel free to connect with me on LinkedIn and make sure you do your research before you do.
Jenny: They wouldn't dare, now, would they? Everyone of you researched up to the hilt. Kate, this has been amazing. Is there any question that I haven't asked you that I should have done ,as it relates to managing agency relationships?
Kate: No, the only other thing I would say, Jenny, and I've said it already but I can't stress enough is that there must always be brief before you embark on a piece of work. Quite often, I've been in situations where clients have said, 'Oh, I didn't have time to do a brief' and of course, you end up spending four times as long doing something because people make assumptions and you get a rubbish piece of work out of it and it's the agency's fault. Even if you have to write the brief yourself and replay it to the client to get them to sign off on it, so you're not making any incorrect assumptions, just do that. Don't do anything without a brief.
Jenny: Very, very sound advice that we're ending on. Kate, you've been amazing. Thank you so much for being my first guest on my very first podcast. I hope loads of account managers have made loads of notes and have come away with loads of ideas to try out with their clients. So, thank you so much.
I hope you enjoyed that interview and you've come away with some ideas and tips for you to implement in your role and with your client relationships. And if you'd like more information about the training to take your account from unpredictable project revenue to more predictable account growth, then come along to the Account Accelerator Programme, which is a three month weekly coaching course starting on the first of September. If you want more details, then you can go to bit.ly/accountaccelerator, or drop me a line at jenny@account management skills.
I'm on a mission to help those in agency client service keep and growing the existing client relationships, so their agency business can thrive.
Welcome to episode one of my first ever podcast. I'm thrilled to have as my first guest a client, and it's Kate Whittaker and she works at DUAL International, and she's head of corporate communications. And Kate is going to share with us what she looks for when selecting an agency - what to avoid when trying to prospect by cold calling clients, why you should be asking your clients for more referrals and then how to get access to even more of your clients once you're embedded in a client organisation. Also, she's going to share some top tips for building really strong client relationships. So I really enjoyed this chat. I hope you get some value. The sound isn't great in places, but I'm working on this. I'm also working on my interview techniques so hopefully with every episode it's going to get better. So now let's go to the interview.
So today I'm really, really excited about Kate Whittaker joining me. Kate is head of corporate communications at DUAL, and she has three decades of experience working in marketing communications and loads of experience managing agency relationships. And I think it's really exciting to get the perspective from a client, really, about the role of an agency account manager. So I'm just going to ask Kate to introduce herself. Kate, welcome to the show,
Kate: Thank you very much, Jenny. I'm really delighted to be here with you although, of course, we're not actually together. So, I'm head of corporate communications for DUAL Group and we're a global insurance group in 16 countries. But we're just about 700 people or so, so it's very personal and friendly. My role is a mix of communications and marketing, which makes it very varied and interesting. So as, Jenny said, I've been working in marketing for around 30 years in a mix of UK and international roles. These have mainly being client side, so I've worked with agencies throughout that time. And one of the reasons I'm really pleased you've asked me here today, Jenny, is I just don't think enough can be done to bring clients and agencies together, working in partnership, and anything I could do to help that process I am delighted to contribute. Until this role at DUAL, I was a branding marketing consultant for around 15 years, and very often this involved reviewing agency rosters and also running agency selection process, so I hope I've lots to say today.
Jenny: Honestly, Kate, I know that you have because, what I failed to mention that the beginning, was that Kate and I met each other about a year ago at an Agencynomics event and I was invited to facilitate a discussion panel, and Kate was one of the guests. We had about four or five agency people and Kate was the token client, and that discussion was so rich and so brilliant and there were agency owners in the audience furiously taking notes and going away with lots of new ideas. So I know that this is going to be a great discussion. And, by the way, if anyone hasn't joined Agencynomics and they're in charge of an agency, I'm going to put an invitation link in the show notes. If you are an agency owner and you have three employees minimum, then it's one of the largest free agency owner communities that there is, and it's a very thriving community. So, Kate, obviously you've got a huge amount of experience as you say, 15 years as a brand marketing consultant as well as the role that you're in currently. So let's start from the beginning. How did you select your agencies, and in that selection process I also am interested to know if you were approached by agencies and whether you still are. So what does that initial process looked like?
Kate: So, obviously it varies from company to company. But to my mind, the common theme for me is I'm looking for a partner to work with. So the selection process is about being clear and transparent about what you need as a client, and what you're expecting the agency to bring to that relationship. I remember in my first few roles, back in the day, the creative directors' agencies were treated like royalty, and woebetide any client who questioned their thinking. Thankfully, those times behind us now, and it is really or should be about partnership. I think that the client agency meeting should be a single team coming together with common goals, but you're bringing different areas of expertise because otherwise why would you be working with them? So you know, if you're not looking forward to the meetings you have with your agency or with your client, I think there's something that needs fixing.
So back to agency selection, typically it had a creative brief, and I'm a massive believer as you know, Jenny, in a clear and comprehensive brief. So we set out our selection criteria and make them very transparent, so every agency knows the points we will be considering that they need to address in their pitch for our business. And the main things I look for are quality of thinking and the ability to provide constructive challenge. Really, possibly because I'm in a more specialist B2B area, I rarely asked agencies to create new creative because I think it's very time consuming and I want their time to be focused on the quality of thinking and strategic direction, but I do like to see campaigns and case studies from previous clients to really understand what the objectives were. what was the brief, and what were the results. If you're an agency and you're looking for new clients my absolute top tip is really do your research. And I know this because I'm on a prospect list somewhere that agencies must be buying that actually list me as working for the Howden Broking Group, which is one of our sister companies. I regularly get emails maybe not every week, but several times a month from agencies promising to transform Howden's marketing and all they would have had to do is a simple check on LinkedIn to see that I don't actually work there and that we're not a broker. I think if you're doing cold calling, my other top tip is take the time to ask if now's a good time to talk. I get cold calls really quite often and it's so rare that someone ask if it's a good time to talk before they launch into a sales pitch. And that just sets me on edge to start with, so those are my two top tips.
Jenny: Kate, I was just going to say there's a few things there already that you've said, which I think are really useful. First of all, I love the fact that you don't ask for new creative at a pitch, because I know that's a little bit of a bone of contention for many agencies because a lot of work goes into pitches generally, and often for like a one in four chance of winning, so a lot of time and effort goes in. It's nice to hear that you don't necessarily want to see brand new creative, but you do want to see examples of work. The other thing that you said, which I thought was really lovely about agency selection, was you're looking for quality thinking and also constructive challenge. So it almost invites the agency to participate in strategy and also to question things. And it's nice that you welcome that approach from agencies as well. But, this is really useful, this how to approach you and there's some brilliant examples there of 'do you research' because I get pitched myself and, you know, if they don't even take the time to understand what you're doing currently, it's just it's a no go, isn't it? Just interested, when you said you were approached, did you say you're on an email list? Do you tend to get approached on email more than anything else, like LinkedIn, for example, do you get pitched in LinkedIn?
Kate: Probably more on email, actually, and on LinkedIn if I get a request, obviously I'm gonna look at who has sent that request and see where the connections are that they've and if it's people I know and value, and that will usually persuade me to accept the request to connect. And then you sort of know you're going to get a pitch, which is okay, because I've already made that decision to enter into a conversation. Phone calls, I do think work less well, because you don't know whether the person you're phoning is going to be busy, having a bad day, whereas I can actually pick and choose the time I might reply to an email or a LinkedIn request.
Jenny: Has it ever worked with you, Kate? So, has anyone pitched you cold? Whether it be phone calls, email or LinkedIn and it's actually turned into a relationship, and an ongoing agency relationship you have?
Kate: Not quite yet. I'm just thinking in recent times, but I am actually in conversation with an agency that came to us with a really interesting and thought provoking email that was nothing really about the agency, it was something around developing tone of voice and how that adds value. It was relevant to me at the time and I'm pretty convinced that they'll have a piece of work from us before the year's out. It's just life is a bit unusual at the moment, and it has happened in the past as well. One of the things I think some agencies have been doing well through lockdown is creating content led webinars so you can go along, share thoughts, share ideas and even if that doesn't lead to me giving an agency a piece of business, or developing a relationship with them, quite often I'm happy to recommend that agency because I've experienced their thinking and the work they've done. And we're really small network within financial services in marketing and people are often asking for recommendations, so it may not come directly but quite often will come indirectly.
Jenny: I love that you've said that as well, because this is what I talked to my agency account directors and account managers about is this doing content led webinars. So this is really interesting, I want to dive the little bit deeper into that. I know that recently, because of the situation with Covid, we're kind of recording this at the beginning of August 2020 where we've just come out of lockdown, or this is the initial stages of coming out of lock down. But a lot of agencies were doing content-led Webinars. What do you look for specifically, that's most interesting for you to take the time to attend?
Kate: Timing is important, so even though I'm working from home, I'm having it feels like twice as many meetings. So something that's over done in an hour is actually really helpful. Don't underestimate that because, actually, there's one agency in particular they do a breakfast meeting or they do it a the end of the day, which is much easier for me to manage my diary. And there are a number of webinars that I've missed because they're at 11 o'clock in the morning and I'm in the middle of something else and I just can't take the time. And then, of course, the content itself is really important. So people that were coming up with ideas around how other people are handling Covid-related communications was something I attended very early on. They were giving examples from really big companies like Apple and Marks and Spencer. And that was really helpful for me because sometimes you know, we've been operating a bit in a vacuum, so to get a sense of what the outside world is doing and communications you might not see otherwise has been helpful. And I think we're all a bit nosey, it's nice to see what other companies are doing and what's worked for them.
Jenny: I think that's spot on, actually. I've seen with other clients, actually, that they want to know what everybody else is doing. So that's an interesting angle for agencies to approach clients is to first of all invite them to something that where they can showcase their knowledge. Presumably, that content webinar was kind of pure content rather than a pitch, right, Kate?
Kate: Yes, it was, but of course, you expect the agency to tell you a little bit about themselves, and it's a clear commercial situation, so you'd actually feel a bit odd if they didn't do a little bit of a sales pitch either at the beginning or the end. But I'm also careful about where I accept hospitality, even in virtual which is slightly different to drinking glasses of wine and eating peanuts. But I do feel if I'm making a commitment and accepting someone's hospitality and receiving wisdom from them that I do have an obligation to give some feedback or to just continue the conversation. So I think you've got really warm prospects if they've accepted an invitation from you.
Jenny: Fantastic. I'm just curious about this because I know that other clients enjoy attending these webinars. Is there any topic that you think would be even more relevant right now that you would be interested in?
Kate: One of the challenges we have faced it is how do we get the messaging and honing the messaging right. Because everybody has been through locked down, but so many people have had very, very different experiences. I've been mostly on my own through lockdown, which I found incredibly challenging because I'm normally out and about and with people all the time. And I've got colleagues who have a two hour commute that simply disappeared and are now spending quality time with their family and they've really enjoyed lockdown. So I think that for me is the biggest challenge of getting that balance right and making sure you're being considerate and compassionate with people. But at the same time, we've all got a business to run. So that, I think, is where I've looked for help from agencies. And that's driven which webinars I might have accepted to attend or not.
Jenny: Fantastic. Okay, so I can see agencies coming up with their 'How to get the tone right with your messaging, your corporate communications' those webinars will be coming out left, right, and centre now Kate, I can just see it! Moving onto agency relationships and the agency account manager or account director specifically, can you give me a flavour or a few examples of where agencies have really earned your trust and have stood out for you for making themselves invaluable?
Kate: Absolutely, you know, this is particular special topic of mine because I think you could have great creative in an agency, but without account management it really just all falls apart. And good account management makes everything run smoothly, but great account management is what transforms the relationship from a client supplier to one of a real partnership and we're quite a specialist company so industry knowledge is really important to me. And the account director I work with in our current agency will often just drop me an email with information, snippets of news and industry news and competitor activity she thinks I might have missed. If I got a problem I need to solve, I will usually pick up the phone up and talk to her, even though it might not result directly in business for her, but the better she understands my business creates better work, and they do often go above and beyond organising calls and giving time, which actually isn't billed. But it's that stacks up and creates credits, and that trust is something that obviously has to build over time. But I have a really good example. Last year, we had an internal Leadership conference, which is attended by all the group companies and we had to produce a video for it. I created the brief, gave it to the agency. The solution they came back with included dancing cartoon cats and doughnuts on and that was obviously never in the brief, but it was absolutely amazing. It completely wowed the audience. People internally are still talking about this video as something that took them completely by surprise, changed their perception of our business and I think that's a really good example of them feeling comfortable enough to present something completely left-field and me feeling comfortable that they had got that judged correctly. And also, hats off to my CEO whose signed off the concept. We trusted them enough for us to be brave and also for them to be brave and suggesting the concept. So I think it is something that comes with time, that trust and it has to be earned, but when it's there something you never want to give up.
Jenny: Wow, I agree. That was a fantastic example, because I think for clients it is a risk, isn't it? Sometimes if an agency comes up with an idea that's particularly bold or to stand out, it's either going to be memorable or it has the potential to fall flat. Getting it just right, fantastic hats off to them for presenting the idea to you. But was there any moment in that transaction that you thought, oh, I'm not 100 percent sure, or were you convinced at the beginning?
Kate: I was convinced, and actually the account director has more years in the insurance industry than I have to so I trust her judgement as well, but actually it was just the CEO's response to it. I thought, iIf he goes with dancing cats then we're fine, we're all good and he loved it. The only challenge is we've got to repeat the impact that we have to do the event again this year.
Jenny: Yeah, you've set the bar too high. You've mentioned a few times about industry knowledge. And how important is is that a prerequisite of working with you? You mentioned that your account director had more experience in the actual industry. Was that because they were ex client as well? Or have they just acquired that industry knowledge through time?
Kate: It's a mix, she was on the client side, but actually her and her partner have this agency they set it up, so that gives them more skin in the game as well. But I would say industry experience is important in certain sectors. So I work in the underwriting arm of insurance, so it's nothing mainstream, like selling car insurance or home insurance. Without understanding those challenges and the markets we operate in it's quite hard to actually create communications campaigns. But obviously in other sectors, like banking, you know, everyone's experienced banking and we've all got a bank account. So yes, industry knowledge is good, but it's not gonna be as essential as it is in the more specialist B2B areas.
Jenny: You gave a little tip there, which I thought was fantastic, is to prove to your client that you understand the industry is to send them snippets of news on a regular basis. Just out of interest, going a little bit tactical here, but when your account director or manager sends you that snippet of information, do they then give you their point of view on whether this snippet of information represents may be an opportunity for you to do something? Or maybe it represents a challenge that you need to do something about that they give you their point of view?
Kate: Yes, absolutely. Either it's going to be in response to a conversation we've already had, or are having or it's about something they know that is coming up. And that's the reason I see my agency is part of my team. They just happen to work somewhere else. In the same way that a team member said something you would say, 'Oh, I thought this about it', you get that from the agency as well, so they really do feel like an extension of us, which was where it adds real value., .
Jenny: I suppose, also, from the agency's point of view it's an opportunity for them to remain visible, isn't it? If they are sending you regular snippets.
Kate: Yes, I think this is about intent, isn't it? So I think you think we're doing it just to, you know, go 'Oh, I haven't written to Kate this week', I must send her an email about something then I think you would spot that. But it does absolutely keep them visible and present. Quite often they'll share something with me that I share on within the company as well, so you know, everybody's quite comfortable with the choice of agency and nobody's says why we're spending money externally, even through Covid, because they see how they add value across the business.
Jenny: Did the agency account manager ask you whether you wanted her to be keeping you updated on what was happening in the market? Or was it talked about at the beginning of the relationship at all?
Kate: No, it wasn't even in the slightest. I was just I think we've worked so closely together, it just feels like we're having a bit of a conversation and chat as you would with a colleague. So it does feel that informal and a close relationship.
Jenny: I love that. That's really good. I think this is really good tip for most agency account managers to take note of. And just to go, sorry, I'm going a little bit too deep into this, but just to be specific so people can come away with some actionable things to do that information. When is it most valuable to you? Because obviously they could share an insight into your customer, into the market, into the industry in general, into your company or your competitors? Does it matter specifically what they're sharing with you from the market?
Kate: No, it doesn't. I think that, back to the earlier conversation that I like to involve my agency in understanding, deeply understanding, our strategy. So I invest the time to explain what we're doing. So normally, what they share is relevant, even though it might be different topics and themes. The other thing, which I should have mentioned already, is that it starts a conversation because I'll reply and go 'that's interesting, I'll have a think about this'. And sometimes it does result in us sending out an email that we weren't planning to do or some other kind of communication. So it's done with the best intent, and it might result in a piece of paid work or it might not. But it's done as part of a team.
Jenny: That's amazing, brilliant. Just changing tack, a bit, Kate. There's some great examples of where agencies getting it right. What about where agencies get it wrong and you share a couple of examples of the kinds of things to not do with their clients.
Kate: I think it comes back to account management for me almost every time, and when it doesn't work, it just feels exhausting. So I remember in one situation I inherited an agency when I moved into a new role and it was a project based role, so I had no intention of changing agencies. While I was there, I was just really there to deliver a project and they consistently missed deadlines, poor communication, inaccurate contact reports, inaccurate invoicing. And it was exhausting and chipped away any trust they may otherwise have had. And I think no surprises on both sides is really essential. So if I'm committing to get back with comments by close of play today, and I know that's not going to happen, I try and tell my agency as soon as I can. So they don't actually book time in the studio that they're not going to be using, and I expect the same back, it's just a sort of situation of respect, really. Things do go wrong and deadlines slip, but we should work together to create solutions. But I think that communication is key - don't make me chase you for something that should have been delivered.
Jenny: Very good point. You said something there that was, I think, quite apt, 'I inherited the agency'. Would you agree that if an agency has a new client coming into the role, that's quite a key time to kind of step up the activity or do something different?
Kate: Yes, 100%. Because of my consultancy background and the number of roles I've had over that 15 years quite often, I was going into roles where I was inheriting (that's an interesting expression 'inheriting' isn't it?) but inheriting other people's agency choices. Nine times out of 10, that's absolutely fine. But occasionally, you know things aren't going well and that's either because of an over confidence on the agency's side that they didn't feel the need to take the time to bring me up to speed with who they were and and what they've been doing. The ones that got it right would immediately, you know, welcome me. Tell me to come over and spend some time with him so I could understand what they offered. Because the other thing when you go into a new role, is your understanding of the agency is different than it would be if you've been through a pitch from them, because you don't understand the breadth and depth of the services they offer. So it's really helpful for me to know that the agency can do several other things other than the work they're really doing for me. And that's a great opportunity to kind of re-sell your business into the client side.
Jenny: It's a no brainer, really, isn't it? That's a really great point, Kate. What about if, during the course of working with an agency, an agency has some new ideas to share with you? Do you welcome that? When is a good time to do that? How often should an agency do that and is there ever a bad time to do that?
Kate: I don't think there's a bad time, really. The great thing about working with an agency is you put in a brief, you debate it, there's challenge around the brief and then the agency will come back with something which is better because you've had that collaborative process. And of course, there's gonna be times where the creative team say 'If we did this, it would be amazing'. And it would just turn what's an ordinary campaign into a great campaign, and I would always want those ideas to be suggested. If we don't have the money for it, I will be open and transparent. And I think that that acknowledgement that we know this wasn't in the brief but it sounds like a great idea - they're great conversations and they can take you down a direction you didn't expect, but is a better result in the end. I think the bad time to do it is where, I mean not so much these days, but agencies will add extra suggestions into their proposal because it's adding money to the end invoice, and I think clients will be usually quite adept to telling the difference between the two.
Jenny: That's a really very good point there. You just said something a moment ago that I just wanted to ask you a bit more about. You said 'I will be clear if I don't have the money for it'. Has this ever happened to you, where an agency's come up with an idea that actually 'I'm going to find the money because we really need to do that'?
Kate: Yes, and in fact, that conference video that I talked about a moment ago was a really good case in point, because we spent quite a lot of money on that. Originally, we were just going to do a talking head straightforward run of the mill insurance video and luckily there was an appetite to spend the extra budget and it paid off so well. We've used it at events, we've used it to win new business, we've used it externally as well as internally. So, yes, if there is a great idea if you are in a lucky position in the company you work for, you can usually find some extra budget.
Jenny: And did the agency at the time of presenting that sort of slightly out their idea did they position it as this is going to get you more business? You know, if we can do this, did they sell it to you in that way? Or was it just Look, this is a fantastic idea, and it's just subsequently made you more money.
Kate: The additional complications and really, really tight deadline, which I had made the decision to bring the scope back to something more ordinary because I didn't think we had enough time to do something extraordinary and actually what they came and pitched was 'we can do this, we can work weekends, we could work late hours because we think this is what you need'. And the fact that they were putting themselves to that trouble, but to produce something that they were going to be proud of as well, was what resonated with all of us.
Jenny: Oh, I love that. We think this is what you need. I love that sort of confidence. Kate, in the course of working with your agencies and I know this came up at Agencynomics, I ask you the same question, so I kind of know what you're gonna say, but it's still blew everyone away when you gave the answer. How often do agencies ask you to refer them to somebody else?
Kate: Hardly ever. It's really surprising because normally you'd think if you were in a position where you're working with an agency of a period of time it's because everybody's happy. You would think that would happen a lot. I've been giving some thought to it since we had that initial conversation and possibly for me, it's because I'm in a specialist market, and so would I be referring my agency to my competitors? No, because I don't want them to work with them. But I'm always happy to give endorsements and particularly if it showcases the work that we've done. I find that information really interesting when I look at agency websites or agency events, if you can look at case studies of similar clients and addressing similar issues, so I'm just really surprised people don't ask more.
Jenny: It's a really good point, actually, as you say, if you're in a specialist area and who are you going to be referring them to? Probably not a competitor, because they did really good work for you. But what about within your company? Because if you're managing corporate comms, for example. But you have I mean, I don't know how your company's structured, but say you have individual brand managers in other departments or even other departments, per se, that would also benefit from working with an external agency. Would you see an internal referral as an opportunity for an agency to ask you?
Kate: Yeah, in fact, I've done that. Interestingly, the famous video, that video the following day I had six emails from people all over the world asking me who had worked with on it, and asking for an introduction, so the agency introduced themselves with that piece of work. But also, what I try and do is if the agency has got something interesting to share then I will bring in my colleagues from other parts of the business. And we might have, you know, might have a discussion over lunch on a particular topic so they get to meet those colleagues of mine and create their own relationship.
Jenny: I'm so glad you mentioned that, because that's another thing that I talked to my agency account managers about is instigating lunch and learn sessions. So what kinds of topics, particularly what are the topics that are most interesting?
Kate: We'll given we work in insurance so probably none of it is very interesting for most people! We'll look at things like developing a brand personality, and making sure that communications are authentic and feel credible and consistent. Also specialist areas like developing email marketing campaigns that are effective, so top 10 tips. Just some simple things like that, bringing ideas from outside our business that other people are doing just thought provoking, and it's usually a really good use of your time.
Jenny: I love that. It's also an opportunity for the agency to be in front of people that they don't know within the client company, isn't it, for them to establish relationships with other people that your colleagues that they could then perhaps develop and nurture those relationships.
Kate: Exactly. And it does mean that I'm endorsing the agency and inviting them in and inviting colleagues. So it's a win win, I would have thought.
Jenny: Really, really good point. Thank you for sharing that. This has been gold. It really has. I just want to ask you a couple more questions, if that's okay? What has changed for you, if anything, in light of what's happened with Covid, particularly around your agency relationships?
Kate: Well, I think that right at the beginning of Covid is nobody knew what was going on. But actually the agencies I work with all reached out and touched in that first week. I was actually supposed to be on holiday in Argentina, so they knew I hadn't gone away and people were checking in. I think there was that personal touch first, and then they're was, 'can we help within communications? what are you working on on?' The biggest challenge for us as a business, but in our European businesses, less so in the US and Asia Pacific businesses where they're already dealing with big distances, in Europe most of our meetings with our client has been based to face so suddenly with that not possible, we're all turning to Zoom and Teams and Skype and trying to make those more engaging. So our agency was coming up with ideas about how to make those more engaging, how we might pitch invites even if they weren't actually involved, or being paid for that advice. They were really, really helpful and also just going back to webinars and events, virtual events have been held just sharing information. That's been a really productive part of agency connectons through this time.
Jenny: That's fantastic. And now we're kind of moving out of lockdown, potentially - let's hope we're not gonna go back into it - but what would you say is the tipping point now? What would be most helpful at the point that we're at now, given the circumstances you're in?
Kate: Our particular challenge or maybe objective rather than challenge, is how do we keep our teams new thing, these new virtual ways of interacting with clients, and proving that they work? And our agency is helping us pull together our own internal case studies, because we still have some of our business heads who think email marketing is a newfangled idea. So actually proving effectiveness on how measurable some of the things we've been doing through lockdown is what we'll focus on at the moment as we go through. We won't ever be back to business as normal, I don't think, or certainly not in the foreseeable future. So it's just staying in touch with how the industry is moving in and a better sense of what our sector is doing.
Jenny: A really good point, and I'm sure that's translatable for agency account managers listening in, thinking about their own clients and how they can provide the most value to them. So that's really, really useful. This is the last question Kate for you. Honestly, you've been amazing. If agency account managers want to be seen by their clients as more of a trusted adviser, have you got any advice for them?
Kate: Yes, I think, to two piece of advices I would give to account managers. First is really listen to your clients that you can better understand their business and their challenges. I mean, we're all flattered when people listen to what we have to say but actually also, if I've invested time with you explaining my business,what we do, then I've created that relationship already, and you're much more likely to be able to bring better solutions to me. And I'm much more likely to ask your views and advice going forward, so that's a bit of a virtuous circle, I think. And the second is please don't be afraid to challenge. I've got three decades of experience. That does not mean I'm right. And quite often, you know, I will say to people when I work with them, 'I need you to be questioning my thinking', because there will always be a better result that comes out of that. And it's back to intent, Jenny. Because if you constructively challenge with the right intent, then is always a better solution and you work much more closely together if you've had that debate.
Jenny: Amazing. That's fantastic advice, Kate. You sound like the ideal client. Are you in the market for a new agency right now?
Kate: Sadly not. Do feel free to connect with me on LinkedIn and make sure you do your research before you do.
Jenny: They wouldn't dare, now, would they? Everyone of you researched up to the hilt. Kate, this has been amazing. Is there any question that I haven't asked you that I should have done ,as it relates to managing agency relationships?
Kate: No, the only other thing I would say, Jenny, and I've said it already but I can't stress enough is that there must always be brief before you embark on a piece of work. Quite often, I've been in situations where clients have said, 'Oh, I didn't have time to do a brief' and of course, you end up spending four times as long doing something because people make assumptions and you get a rubbish piece of work out of it and it's the agency's fault. Even if you have to write the brief yourself and replay it to the client to get them to sign off on it, so you're not making any incorrect assumptions, just do that. Don't do anything without a brief.
Jenny: Very, very sound advice that we're ending on. Kate, you've been amazing. Thank you so much for being my first guest on my very first podcast. I hope loads of account managers have made loads of notes and have come away with loads of ideas to try out with their clients. So, thank you so much.
I hope you enjoyed that interview and you've come away with some ideas and tips for you to implement in your role and with your client relationships. And if you'd like more information about the training to take your account from unpredictable project revenue to more predictable account growth, then come along to the Account Accelerator Programme, which is a three month weekly coaching course starting on the first of September. If you want more details, then you can go to bit.ly/accountaccelerator, or drop me a line at jenny@account management skills.