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The Insight by Oaktree Capital

Conversations: The Goldilocks Market with Armen Panossian, Danielle Poli, and Wayne Dahl

Feb 15, 2024
Armen Panossian, Danielle Poli, and Wayne Dahl discuss macroeconomic tailwinds turning into headwinds, Goldilocks thinking in the market, opportunities in asset backed finance, risk in the US housing market, market normalization, and the challenge of reading the economy.
49:59

Podcast summary created with Snipd AI

Quick takeaways

  • Long and short-term macroeconomic tailwinds are transitioning from positive factors to potential headwinds for the economy and credit investors.
  • The concept of Goldilocks thinking, believing in sustained moderate economic growth without significant inflation or recession, poses risks and potential disappointments in the market.

Deep dives

Shift in Macro Trends and Implications for Credit Investors

The Oaktree Capital podcast episode discusses potential shifts in long and short-term macro trends and their implications for credit investors. The main argument in this Performing Credit Quarterly essay is that long and short-term tailwinds are turning into headwinds for the economy and the market. The four key tailwinds discussed are rates, globalization, deregulation, and the benefits from stimulus and savings which came out of the COVID-19 pandemic. The podcast highlights how these tailwinds have transitioned from being positive factors to becoming more neutral or potentially negative. It also emphasizes the concept of Goldilocks thinking, where there is an optimistic market narrative believing in sustained moderate economic growth without significant inflation or recession. The risks associated with this thinking and the potential for disappointment are highlighted. The episode presented three potential macro scenarios: a soft landing or no landing, a hard landing, and a softish landing or a rolling recession. While a soft landing or no landing scenario is deemed the most likely outcome, the risks of a rolling recession are also discussed. The attractiveness of high yield bonds is also highlighted, pointing out their higher yields, higher quality compared to leverage loans, and their potential for providing duration and returns in a higher rate environment. Additionally, the podcast episode discusses the opportunities created by the pullback among banks and the potential for asset-backed finance in the private credit space. Lastly, the risks in the US residential housing market are explored, particularly regarding affordability, the impact on consumer spending, and the potential for a decline in home prices to affect consumer confidence and the broader economy. Overall, the podcast emphasizes the importance of being cautious and prepared for potential shifts and challenges in the market, and highlights the need for credit investors to remain attentive to these macro trends while also focusing on bottom-up fundamental analysis.

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