Continuum Audio Spinal Cord Neoplasms with Dr. J. Ricardo McFaline-Figueroa
Tumors affecting the spine are fortunately uncommon, and may arise within the spine or metastasize from malignancies elsewhere. Effective treatment is determined by tumor type, location, and urgency.
In this episode, Allison Weathers, MD, FAAN, speaks with J. Ricardo McFaline-Figueroa, MD, PhD, author of the article “Spinal Cord Neoplasms,” in the Continuum February 2024 Spinal Cord Disorders issue.
Dr. Weathers is a Continuum® Audio interviewer and the associate chief medical information officer at Cleveland Clinic in Cleveland, Ohio.
Dr. McFaline-Figueroa is a physician at Dana-Farber Cancer Institute and instructor in neurology at Brigham and Women’s Hospital and Harvard Medical School in Boston, Massachusetts.
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Read the article: Spinal Cord Neoplasms
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Transcript
Full transcript available on Libsyn
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Dr Weathers: This is Dr Allison Weathers. Today I'm interviewing Dr Riccardo McFaline-Figueroa on spinal cord neoplasms, which is part of the February Continuum issue on spinal cord disorders. Dr McFaline-Figueroa is a physician at Dana Farber Cancer Institute in Boston, Massachusetts, an instructor in neurology at Brigham and Women's Hospital and Harvard Medical School in Boston, Massachusetts. Welcome to the podcast. You do a really fantastic job in the article providing a comprehensive overview. But if you had to come up with the most important clinical takeaway from the article that you want our listeners to walk away with, what would that be?
Dr McFaline-Figueroa: I think the most important thing to remember about tumors of the spinal cord is, one, that there is no specific diagnostic feature on imaging that can be used to determine what a neoplasm of the spinal cord is or even if it is a neoplasm - I think, going in broadly, when you're looking at a mass lesion of the spinal cord, is very important. Then the second is just to know that there's just such a wide range of cancer possibilities that can do this, that getting an appropriate diagnosis becomes very important.
Dr Weathers: I think two really salient points right there. I want to explore something that you said a little bit more. You talk about the concept that there's no one diagnostic feature of the MRI, and actually, I was thinking about this as I was reading your article. What struck me, too, is that that holds true, actually, for the patient’s presenting signs and symptoms, right? As a neurohospitalist, I'm constantly struggling with always how to balance not missing a diagnosis such as this (a diagnosis of spinal cord tumor), versus putting a patient through what can be an often unnecessary and very costly workup, right? So, this is such a rare diagnosis, but the presenting symptoms and signs, just back radicular pain and weakness, are shared by so many common conditions. What's your approach to distinguishing between them, and what are some of the red flags you look for to know when further workup really is indicated?
Dr McFaline-Figueroa: Certainly. I think there's not one way to decide whether you need to go down the route of exploring a neoplasm of the spinal cord, but there are certainly things that would clue someone into this needing to be the case. I think, one, as opposed to a lot of the monophasic illnesses that we see in neurology, certainly it's something that is progressive; is certainly something that increases the certainty, and it's different from ischemia of the spinal cord or an acute demyelinating event. I think another important feature is also just the context. I think, even though these are rare, when you're dealing with a patient with a known history of cancer, that's when “the rare” becomes common, and that's when you have to really start thinking about it being a neoplasm of the spinal cord. It's still not perfect; it covers some of the side effects of treatment that can look a little bit like a spinal cord neoplasm. But certainly, that should increase the level of suspicion for something going on in that compartment that's neoplastic.
Dr Weathers: I think that's such a great take-home quote for our listeners to think about - when the rare becomes common. You actually hit on the point that I wanted to ask you about next. In neurology, we always talk about how important the history and the exam are - it's kind of our core of what we do. But it feels especially true when talking about neoplasms of the spinal cord. You mentioned, obviously - the big one is that if they have a history of cancer, especially in active history, that's a pretty big clue that something more serious could be going on. But what else is key in the history? Why are the history and the exam so especially important when you're concerned about or dealing with neoplasms of the spinal cord?
Dr McFaline-Figueroa: When we're dealing with the spinal cord, we're dealing with a lot of different compartments. I think, to your question, the one where thinking about history and physical becomes the most important is when you're thinking about the possibility of leptomeningeal involvement, right? The leptomeningeal space is not easily imaged, right? We can't really see much what's going on in the CSF. And so, we rely on - imaging-wise - on there being deposition of cancer cells along the dura or along the direct surface of the cord. But oftentimes, that's not the case. That's when knowing exactly what someone's cancer history is, what their stage in the natural history is, whether they're progressing or not progressing, have some knowledge of what the oncologic medications that they're on are (because brain penetration is different for several of them), and then really hearing for those signs and symptoms that are connected to that compartment - signs of increased intracranial pressure, signs of cranial neuropathy that may or may not be evidence on imaging, radiculopathies. So those are the things that are very important in all investigations of spinal cord tumors. But certainly for leptomeninges, it's often the case that, really, history and physical are all you have to try to get the diagnosis right.
Dr Weathers: You make, actually, a really great point in the article that I think it bears mentioning here. Because I was embarrassed when I read it, because I said, “I have been guilty of that” - that the history of, kind of, these very generic histories of cancer; you know, “Oh, they had lung cancer” - is probably not sufficient, right? That there's value in getting really specific. Why is that?
Dr McFaline-Figueroa: That's certainly why we all specialize in different things, right? For a neuro-oncology standpoint, it sounds very different to me to hear the same history in a patient with melanoma versus the patient with bladder cancer. You think of melanoma from a neuro-oncologic standpoint, you're thinking of a cancer that is incredibly trophic for the brain and spinal cord, probably because it's derived also from ectoderm (so it's kind of the same origin of the cells), and it just makes your level of suspicion go so much higher when you are in that mind space. Thinking of a melanoma patient versus someone with a tumor, that very rarely (if it all) goes to the central nervous system. I think that's something that's really important. And those are two big extremes. But even - like I mentioned - even in lung cancer, certainly, small cell versus non-small cell are very different in terms of when and how they can affect the spinal cord or any part of the central nervous system. So, that one is a little bit more nuanced and, being a neuro-oncologist - but still, it’s specific as you can be when you're discussing with your neuro-oncology colleagues or medical oncology colleagues, and the better for trying to figure these things out.
Dr Weathers: An excellent pro tip right there. You were very gracious about it - about that we all have different specialties. I was reflecting on that, too - this is such an important yet definitely pretty specialized topic; how did you become interested and develop your expertise in it?
Dr McFaline-Figueroa: My clinical work is on all sorts of tumors of the central nervous system. Actually, in neuro-oncology, we also do a little bit of peripheral nervous system tumors, depending on how they present. And it's all a continuum. Not to use that - well, we just happen to be on Continuum. But it's all a continuum: brain, spinal cord - it's all one big compartment. And it forces you to be really familiar with all of those. And I think it's an interesting topic - we don't talk about it as much as we do for some of the other – you know, cancers of the brain, for example. In terms of becoming an expert, for me, I mean a lot of it is just, at this point, experience. And I will say, a lot of reading, because you don't see all of these. I cover some topics, like primary glioneuronal tumors of the leptomeninges, which are incredibly rare - I've never seen a patient with one. But it's one of those things where you should know the basics of these, at least for my field, and certainly beyond.
Dr Weathers: What about neuro-oncology in general? How did you decide that you wanted to specialize in that?
Dr McFaline-Figueroa: Well actually, me, personally - I spent a lot of my residency trying to decide between being a neurointensivist and being a neuro-oncologist. I think, for me is that I like taking care of patients who are potentially very sick. I think I just enjoyed the process of the more longitudinal relationship you have as a neuro-oncologist - seeing people in clinic, walking them through all these treatments and difficult disease courses – and that, to me, I just found really fulfilling, while still having lots of internal medicine to think about, lots of interesting neurology, just in a different context.
Dr Weathers: It's such an interesting field. And I was also really thinking about this - that while neurology overall has had so many incredible advancements in terms of diagnostic and therapeutic capabilities in the last several years, neuro-oncology, in some ways, is almost like an entirely different field since I was in residency training, which wasn't all that long ago. How have these changes impacted how you diagnose and manage spinal cord tumors?
Dr McFaline-Figueroa: Certainly, there's been a lot of changes in technology that I think have been helpful. And then, certainly, slowly but surely, we are coming up with better treatments for patients. When I speak of technologies, one thing that, for example, comes to mind is - historically, it's just so difficult to diagnose. I keep coming to the same anatomic compartment, but it's so difficult to diagnose leptomeningeal carcinomatosis or leptomeningeal involvement by a tumor, even more so, I think, in the spinal cord, because it's just difficult to catch on imaging. But over the last few years, so many advances in, like, molecular testing of cerebral spinal fluid to be able to look for cell-free DNA; to be able to enrich for rare cell populations and then identify them, which really, kind of, have changed that “we need to do three LPs” mentality. We have things that are sensitive enough that are rolling out. And in terms of treatment, certainly, the field is changing. There's so many now targeted therapies emerging for tumors as we understand the biology, which is probably the biggest roadblock to better care for the primary spinal cord tumors - it's also a very exciting time to be in neuro-oncology because of that.
Dr Weathers: On perhaps a less positive note - the fields change so quickly; has this led to any controversies in the field?
Dr McFaline-Figueroa: I think the biggest controversies are less so controversies in the traditional sense, in that I don’t think anyone's fighting with each other. But it's become really difficult to know, particularly as those therapies that I mentioned come out, what is the right first step. Is the right first step for somebody to have, for example – well, actually, this is less controversial now - but for example, someone with von Hippel-Lindau, who might have multiple hemangioblastomas. We're reaching a point that, with approvals of targeted therapies for that disease, you might not necessarily go for surgery (which could be quite morbid in some instances) or radiation for progressive disease. So, I think one of the issues there is that we're not necessarily at the point where we are sure that, you know, definitely the intervention with the longest survival is targeted therapy first, and then maybe surgery, and then maybe radiation, versus the other. I think the order at which we treat these tumors is just a little bit in flux.
Dr Weathers: Hopefully, with time and more evidence, that will become more definitive and clear. You just mentioned - just in that answer alone - surgery and radiation. The other really fascinating thing about this topic (about neoplasms of the spinal cord) is how truly a multidisciplinary effort the management of patients with spinal cord tumors is. What other specialists do you work with to diagnose and manage this patient population, and what's everyone's role in these cases?
Dr McFaline-Figueroa: Certainly, neurosurgery still plays a huge role, particularly because even when you are relatively sure that it's a tumor of the spine (particularly if you think it's a primary tumor of the spine), there's really no - again, just no diagnostic test; that's just imaging. The only way that we have to establish the diagnosis is through tissue examination. In neurosurgery, in a lot of diseases, still plays a huge role. For example, ependymoma is one where, really, gross total resection is one of the biggest (if not the biggest) prognostic factor in treatment. Radiation oncology - there are still histologies that we have no good systemic therapies for. For example, for diffuse midline gliomas, most of them are not very sensitive to the therapies that we have that are systemic. So, for these tumors, it becomes important to do radiation as the most significant step in management that we have - we just don't have anything efficacious for those tumors, at the moment, although we're learning a lot about the biology. A lot of these have histone mutations that people are trying to target for more effective treatments. So, radiation oncology, again, still plays a huge role in the treatment of our patients. Certainly, when you're dealing with patients with metastatic cancer to the spine, medical oncology is huge. And that's where - me, as a neuro-oncologist, I'm less of an oncologist and more as a person who the medical oncology can bounce ideas from. We talk about - sit down and talk about - their expertise in how to treat these tumor types. And then, me bringing in what might be brain-penetrant, what things may or may not be toxic to the nervous system - stuff like that. It's really a group effort, and that's not even mentioning nurses, nurse practitioners, amazing people who coordinate care, and stuff like that. And like I mentioned early on, one of the most important things is to know exactly what type of tumor or cancer these are before proceeding with any conversation about treatment. And that's where our neuropathologists really drive the direction of what we're doing.
Dr Weathers: Even as I was thinking about this question, in my mind, what I thought your response point may be - that was even more of a complex team than I think I had envisioned, and it really speaks to, again, the true multidisciplinary effort, the “team of teams” that's needed to provide care for these patients. And I think I heard you say this in your - that wonderful answer, but that as things are evolving and as we are better understanding the biology, that we're getting better with our targeted treatments. But that could possibly include, at some point, even targeted therapies for midline gliomas, which would be incredible. I know that's always been one with, not only especially poor prognosis, but given the population it tends to affect (younger patients), it can be quite devastating. That definitely struck me as I heard you say it. So, I think this is a field where we're going to continue to see so many breakthroughs. And that leads me, actually, into my last question. I always like ending these on a hopeful note, and I think that certainly does it. But we've talked about so many changes already, and again, I know even more to come. What do you think the next big breakthrough will be? Did we cover it already? Is there anything else that you're excited about that's coming down the pike?
Dr McFaline-Figueroa: I think we covered some of it, which is really being able to bring more systemic therapies (more oral therapies or intravenous therapies) that treat these tumors, as opposed to things like aggressive surgery or radiation, which are effective. But the hope here is that we can delay those so that we can have people living longer with these cancers, or cured of these cancers, and trying to spare them as many side effects of treatment as we can - which historically, in the spinal cord, is quite significant because it's a difficult space to do surgery on and it tolerates only a certain amount of radiation before coming into toxicity. So, I think it's a really exciting time to be on the medical side of things as a neuro-oncologist and see all these treatments coming in that really improve people's quality of life.
Dr Weathers: Definitely an exciting time to do what you do. Well, again, thank you for the incredible article, for taking the time to speak with me today. Any last thoughts for our listeners?
Dr McFaline-Figueroa: Just be mindful when working up those spinal cord tumors. There's a lot to think about, but there's also a lot of good can be done by doing good diagnostic workup.
Dr Weathers: Thank you, Dr McFaline-Figueroa for joining me on Continuum Audio. Again, today we've been interviewing Dr. Riccardo McFaline-Figueroa, whose article on spinal cord neoplasms appears in the most recent issue of Continuum, on spinal cord disorders. Be sure to check out Continuum Audio podcasts from this and other issues. And thank you to our listeners for joining today.
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